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My dad the rocket launcher
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mrtexas Citruholic
Joined: 02 Dec 2005 Posts: 1030 Location: 9a Missouri City,TX
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Posted: Fri 09 Sep, 2011 3:13 am |
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As a kid growing up I knew my Dad was involved in the Apollo program.
On my trip to visit him in Seattle I just got back from I asked him about the details. He will be 91 years young September 23. He worked 38 years for the Boeing company. Most don't know but Boeing built the Saturn V first stage rocket for Apollo. NASA was only the managing contractor. Different aerospace companies built the rest of it.
Wow! He was directly involved in making history way more than I ever imagined. And a key hands on player in the successful launches of Apollo. As a retired engineer myself, I can truthfully say that he was a brilliant engineer like none I never met in my 31 year career.
In 1964 when I was 10 years old, we moved from Seattle to Huntsville, AL(wow what a foreign country it was to me). I asked, "What did you do down in Huntsville?" He said he directly supervised the Boeing engineers that got the RCA launch sequence computer working and tested it out on an actual 1st stage rocket. Boeing also tested and fired off the 1st stage rocket engines there.
In 1967 we moved to Slidell, LA. He worked at NASAs Michoud plant and the Mississippi Test Facility. These places assembled the 1st stage rockets and tested the stage. He was the engineering change coordinator meaning he solved the bureaucratic problems that were preventing the schedule from being met. What a schedule it was! In the course of only 2 years Apollo 10-17 were launched.
In 1969 we moved to Cape Kennedy. By this time I was in the 8th grade. He was the first line engineering supervisor(one of two crews as the schedule was very aggressive) with the 150 Boeing engineers who launched the Saturn V. "Well dad what does that mean?" His engineers assembled the whole thing, 1st, 2nd, 3rd stage and spacecraft in the VAB, vertical assembly building. They did the finally checkout of the Saturn V and the launch sequence computers. He then supervised the actual launch. His guys were the ones that lit the thing off! He was in the underground bunker control room where the launch happened. We moved back to Seattle in 1973 when the program was over. That's why I attended the U of Washington in Seattle.
He knows lots of stuff that most don't know as well. There were supposed to be 6 unmanned launches. But the first 2 were launched and flew flawlessly so they put a man on the 3rd one.
He met lots of famous people as well, Werner von Braun and the Pienemundie German engineers, Richard Nixon, all the astronauts, and the CEOs of the engineering companies involved in the launch like for instance Jack Northrop, the founder of the Northrup Aircraft Company. The VIPS sat in a couple rows behind him in the control room. He also started out as an engineer with the longtime CEO of Boeing, T. Wilson.
That's not all. He was also involved in the Minuteman program as well. You know the missiles with nuclear warheads that used to be parked in underground silos all over the country? He was also a pioneer in the development of the first commercial jet aircraft, the 707.
I bet you can't tell how proud of him I am? His career is just almost unbelievable to me. Back in the day he didn't talk much about work and I was just a kid. It never occurred to ask him about his work when I was working as a Chemical Engineer. Glad I asked. He loves talking about the most exciting years of his career.
Ironically he is the only person I know who agrees with me that man has no business in space and that it is not worth the danger like killing 15 astronauts in the space shuttle program. The man in space program was a political battle after all that the Russians lost and we won. We have done a good job of proving man can't successfully live in space long term and wow the expense of it! It will never be cheap to launch to space as the lawas of nature can't be overturned. Space should be done with un-manned spacecraft if at all. I personally think the government should be out of the space business. That would leave private companies to launch commercial satellites. Funny the only thing I agree with Obama on is cancelling the shuttle program! |
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igor.fogarasi Moderator
Joined: 11 Apr 2011 Posts: 559 Location: Novi Sad, Serbia
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Posted: Fri 09 Sep, 2011 7:26 am |
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there is a clear evidence, which is what you really should be proud of.
i am a young engineer of electrotechnics, and if nothing else i understand the significance of all the accomplishments your dad was involved in.
and yes, i agree with anyone saying that the whole space thing is an irreversible waste of money which should've been used in a better way other than this.
igor |
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GT Citruholic
Joined: 11 Jul 2010 Posts: 395 Location: Beaumont, TX (zone 9a)
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Posted: Sat 10 Sep, 2011 3:32 am |
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Phil,
wow! Your dad's story (should I say history?) is extremely impressive! You sure have all the reasons to be proud!
When you are saying we lost the battle, you are talking about the first man on the moon, right? However, both the first artificial object in space and the first man in space were russian. Yeah, we more or less slowed down after that letting you folks to walk on the moon. Guess, I'm getting patriotic all of a sudden.
I don't quite agree on the waist of money concept though. Being an EE, i'm not talking about scientific advances etc. The technology developed for space programs is used everywhere. USB is just one example. How about gps, satellite communications and other things we use? Think we would be far behind with no space programs... Just my humble opinion. |
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dauben Citruholic
Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 963 Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A
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Posted: Sat 10 Sep, 2011 3:10 pm |
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Mr. Texas, your father reminds me of my grandpa. He validated electrical systems on the Atlas Missles at Vandenburg for several years. He said he worked 7 days a week and his bosses had a common complaint about never being able to find anything wrong with his work. Although he wasn't an engineer, he was one of those self made men who's dad had a stroke at a young age leaving him and his sister to fend for themselves while his mother worked to support the family. He eventually went to trade school right before the depression hit and then found himself with a skill but no one willing to hire with the 25% unemployment rate. He and a partner rebuilt generators in cars (aka alternators in new cars) and took turns driving 200 miles each day to sell their rebuilds to auto repair stores in different directions outside of Kansas City. He later enlisted in the Navy at the start of WWII working on a PT Boat chasing submarines. After the war he taught electronics for the military until he got his "Top Secret" job validating missles (Being a cantankerous kind of guy, later in life in his 80's, he presented his Top Secret clearance from the 1960s to the Department of Motor Vehicles to make sure they renewed his drivers license). He also became the Pesident of the Better Business Bureau and started a fully accredited San Diego College of Engineering which he later sold at a decent profit. For someone who started with nothing and couldn't remember a day of his youth that he wasn't hungry, he ended up doing well in life. He and his sister have passed away in the last few years, but like most people from that era, had quite a story to tell. |
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mrtexas Citruholic
Joined: 02 Dec 2005 Posts: 1030 Location: 9a Missouri City,TX
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Posted: Sat 10 Sep, 2011 10:22 pm |
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GT wrote: | Phil,
wow! Your dad's story (should I say history?) is extremely impressive! You sure have all the reasons to be proud!
When you are saying we lost the battle, you are talking about the first man on the moon, right? However, both the first artificial object in space and the first man in space were russian. Yeah, we more or less slowed down after that letting you folks to walk on the moon. Guess, I'm getting patriotic all of a sudden.
I don't quite agree on the waist of money concept though. Being an EE, i'm not talking about scientific advances etc. The technology developed for space programs is used everywhere. USB is just one example. How about gps, satellite communications and other things we use? Think we would be far behind with no space programs... Just my humble opinion. |
Hello Gleb! You are correct, Yuri Gargarin was first and the beeping satellite Sputnik was first. Quite a propaganda win for the Russians. Yuri must have been very brave as I think the Russians at the time were willing to take more risks with human life than the USA. If Yuri had perished, the news likely would not have gotten out to the West. In the USA it was for all to see, failure or success. Those first rockets were really ICBMs more suitable for launching bombs than humans!
Ole Pres Kennedy pretty much drew a line in the sand about the moon. The USA won because of better technology in rocket engines. The Saturn V had only 4 engines. The Russian N-1 had 30 engines like those used on the smaller rockets and they never could get them to work all at the same time.
The Russians really did it with much fewer resources as their economy at it's best was never more than 25% of the USA economy. They deprived their own people of consumer goods that make life easier to live and spent the money for space! For example NASA spent $$$ inventing a ball point pen that would work in zero gravity. The Russians? Oh they spent 10 cents and used pencils! It is a little known fact that our government was fearful that the relative weakness of the Soviet economy would become public knowledge and make it harder to drum up the money for defense spending. Of course after the end of communism all the facts have come out!
Might I mention the superiority of private enterprise over state run enterprises that run on patriotism rather than the profit motive(self interest)? Really, Russian history has proven that self interest as in capitalism is a much better motivator for success than the patriotism of communism.
I've been very interested in Russian and Soviet history for a long time as one of my grandfathers came from Kovno, Russia what used to be Lithuania in 1917. Back in the 80s I used to get the Soviet propaganda magazine "Soviet Life."
As far as the waste of money, I think it is that risking the lives of men in space that is the waste. Spending $40,000+ a pound to shoot a man is pretty expensive. Most of what has been accomplished in space didn't need to risk the lives of men to accomplish. I can concede that maybe some spending in space for unmanned spacecraft by the government for pure research might be justified. It is a great jobs program for engineers like my dad. None of the money spent ended up in space after all! One of the best decisions our government made was by Ronald Reagan when he got NASA out of the business of launching satellites and handed it over the private companies. NASA was a great stimulus of course to developing computers and other do-dads needed for space craft. I question whether the federal government really needs to fund pure research as the record of the feds about picking winners is so dismal. The shuttle program was surely an impressive piece of technology.
I can say about my career that I contributed to making gasoline a little cheaper to make as a chemical engineer but I can't say I did great things like dear old dad! What really impresses me about my dad is his place in history as the hands on supervisor of a group of 150 engineers that launched men to the moon for the first time. Those bunch of rocket engineers in the 60s and 70s were making most of the money Boeing earned at the time!
Also quite impressive is how many famous people he came in contact with like Werner von Braun and Richard Nixon. I can't say I knew personally or shook hands with any CEOs of major companies like Boeing or Northrup! He really is a pioneer in the fields of commercial jet aircraft, ICBMs and space rockets.
As with all great men, he is humble. I only hear about his impressive accomplishments when I ask. He has always talked about the guys he worked with with great admiration and I've heard those stories over and over again (like I find myself repeating over and over the older I get as well). Up until recent years I never knew and it didn't occur to me to ask! |
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GT Citruholic
Joined: 11 Jul 2010 Posts: 395 Location: Beaumont, TX (zone 9a)
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Posted: Sun 11 Sep, 2011 1:40 am |
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Phil,
first of all, let me assure you that I absolutely admire your dad, his achievements, and all his contributions to the space exploration! I also never meant to diminish the role US played in the space race and my remark was just "for the sake of fairness".
I like the way you put it with Gagarin. I would say he, most likely, had a choice to either "volunteer" for the space trip with almost no hope to return (as happened with several other russian kosmonauts/astronauts and a few dogs)... or spend his very short life on a remote northern island at best. For the entire 70+ years of soviet history, our government never gave sh... about safety of their men! There were always too many... 22-26 millions lost to WW2 - no big deal!? I'm so glad those days are over!
Yeah, I heard about pencils. Smart, weren't we? You are absolutely right: the soviet economy had the efficiency of a steam machine! I'm so glad those days are over!!! Btw, such a scarecrow we were.
Evidently, I did not quite understand your point regarding quitting the shuttle program. My point was that the research originated from space exploration and related to it was very applied for the most parts and it would be sad to dash it.
Anyway, I'm absolutely fascinated with your dad's history and wish him a very long, happy, and healthy life! Thank you very much for sharing this story.
Gleb |
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mrtexas Citruholic
Joined: 02 Dec 2005 Posts: 1030 Location: 9a Missouri City,TX
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Posted: Sun 11 Sep, 2011 3:04 am |
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GT wrote: | Phil,
first of all, let me assure you that I absolutely admire your dad, his achievements, and all his contributions to the space exploration! I also never meant to diminish the role US played in the space race and my remark was just "for the sake of fairness".
Evidently, I did not quite understand your point regarding quitting the shuttle program. My point was that the research originated from space exploration and related to it was very applied for the most parts and it would be sad to dash it.
Gleb |
Well, I didn't mention the Russians! They contributed lots to the conquest of space as well as us. They poked us to start the space race as well!
My comment about the shuttle is just of repeat of my non-support for manned flight. But we surely benefited from the effort anyway, expensive as it was. It proved after all man can't survive long term in space, note the 6 month guys having to be carried out of the return capsule because they can't walk. The shuttle was sold here as a way to make spaceflight cheap. Ha, it only raised volume and costs never were reduced, they increased as every other government program does.
Funny though that someone who benefited from the government largess like my dad knew all along that it was a national boondoggle! Give them food and circus! |
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Millet Citruholic
Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 6656 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Sun 11 Sep, 2011 2:06 pm |
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Whether it be government of private, I believe the "conquest" of space is valuable, even with the cost. - Millet (491-) |
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