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Citrus Growers Forum
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Leafminers & Asian Citrus Psyllid treatment Recommendations
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morgman
Joined: 21 Aug 2010 Posts: 15 Location: Corona, CA
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Posted: Wed 28 Aug, 2013 1:53 am |
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I got hit with lots of Leafminers on my lemons in the past 2 weeks. Most of the new growth is curled over. I have been treating with Bayer Advanced, Spinosad and Neem oil. Bayer Advanced says to only treat once a year. Can this be correct? It does not seem to be working too well on CLM, especially on lemons because the leaves are so aromatic.
I also saw some clusters of immature Asian Citrus Psyllid larvae!!! I noticed ACP early this spring and I called the county agriculture office and they said we know that your area has ACP just watch out for huanglongbing. That was pretty disappointing.
Here is my question, can you guys recommend a (bi)weekly treatment plan for CLM and ACP? Below is what I have treated with. Do I need to spray Spinosad weekly, biweekly etc?
6-27-2013 - Bayer Advanced root drench each tree per directions
7-5-2013 - Sprayed foliar Spinosad
7-24-2013 - Sprayed foliar Neem oil
7-30-2013 - Sprayed foliar Spinosad
Thanks so much,
Morgan
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elsedgwick Citruholic
Joined: 26 May 2012 Posts: 137 Location: Thomasville, GA (8b)/Tallahassee, Fl (9a microclimate)
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Posted: Thu 29 Aug, 2013 1:19 am |
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Spinosad and neem should both work for ~ a week or two as long as you get good coverage (top and bottom) and they are not washed off.
Others will have more input on imidicloprid. Overall, though, I'm surprised that you are having that much of an issue with CLM within two months of an imidicloprid application and neem/spinosad treatments. Is there any chance that the imidicloprid was leached out of the soil before it could be taken up by the plant (e.g. from heavy rains shortly after the application), and the spinosad and neem were washed off (again, through rain or watering)?
Perhaps you could try a drip system, if at all practical, and avoid watering for a few days after the soil injection or drench. |
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morgman
Joined: 21 Aug 2010 Posts: 15 Location: Corona, CA
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Posted: Thu 29 Aug, 2013 1:48 am |
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elsedgwick wrote: | Spinosad and neem should both work for ~ a week or two as long as you get good coverage (top and bottom) and they are not washed off.
Others will have more input on imidicloprid. Overall, though, I'm surprised that you are having that much of an issue with CLM within two months of an imidicloprid application and neem/spinosad treatments. Is there any chance that the imidicloprid was leached out of the soil before it could be taken up by the plant (e.g. from heavy rains shortly after the application), and the spinosad and neem were washed off (again, through rain or watering)?
Perhaps you could try a drip system, if at all practical, and avoid watering for a few days after the soil injection or drench. |
Thanks elsedgewick. I'm just going to have to spray Spinosad & neem weekly. I was surprise too about the imidicloprid application. I'm pretty sure I followed the directions for the application and no it did not leach out with rain. We barely get any rain in southern california in the summer. I don't know how many days I turned on the drip system after doing the imidicloprid application.
There are lots of backyard citrus in my neighborhood so I'm sure CLM & ACP is all around here.
Thanks again for taking the time to respond.
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elsedgwick Citruholic
Joined: 26 May 2012 Posts: 137 Location: Thomasville, GA (8b)/Tallahassee, Fl (9a microclimate)
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Posted: Thu 29 Aug, 2013 10:17 am |
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I should have noted that neem and spinosad do have somewhat different modes of action: Neem (and other oils) has some deterrent effect, preventing the moths from laying as many eggs. Spinosad works only after ingestion by the larvae, so there will be evidence of small aborted tunnels, but it should prevent the extensive curling you're seeing.
Although there may be little an individual can do about preventing pesticide resistance on a large scale, especially with a highly mobile pest like CLM, it might be best not to spray both weekly, to prevent dual resistance/tolerance. Perhaps you can use one regularly and then do occasional treatments with the other? Say, neem weekly and the spinosad once every six weeks one year and then switch for the next year - spinosad every two weeks and neem once a month? And be on the lookout for other approaches to control.
One that I've heard of, though have no experience with, is pheromone lure traps. See, e.g. http://www.iscatech.com/ecommerce/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=5.
By and large I'm wary of such products, since it seems like attracting pests is not what you want to be doing in your garden (although I believe you are supposed to place the traps some distance from host plants), but in undergrad I worked with an entomologist - and avid gardener - who was of the opinion that pheromone traps worked uniquely well for lepidoptera. Does anyone else out there have experience with these?
One other thing you could try is weighting your fertilizer applications earlier in the year to try to spur most of the new growth before the CLM populations build (assuming, that is, that they are somewhat seasonal, with populations building over the course of the summer, as they do here in the Southeast).
Finally, most of the literature suggests that CLM doesn't have significant effects on older plants (more than ~four years old). I'm sure that the mines themselves and the leaf curl does reduce the photosynthetically active area somewhat (although that also presumably allows more light to reach lower/interior leaves), but unless one is a commercial grower with thin profit margins, it seems unlikely to be significant. So, at least once the trees are older, perhaps it makes sense to focus primarily on the ACP. |
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adriano Citruholic
Joined: 24 Feb 2012 Posts: 355 Location: Zagreb, Croatia
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Posted: Thu 29 Aug, 2013 11:54 am |
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I noticed the old trees which got hit by CLM last year, are not affected by CLM this year. Those trees produced no new growth in july and august and last year old trees had plenty of new growth in summer. The new planted trees however put out new growth which is all covered by CLM. It is like the old trees have put out new growth earlier to avoid CLM. _________________ i am in love with lemon |
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morgman
Joined: 21 Aug 2010 Posts: 15 Location: Corona, CA
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Posted: Thu 29 Aug, 2013 2:46 pm |
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elsedgwick wrote: | I should have noted that neem and spinosad do have somewhat different modes of action: Neem (and other oils) has some deterrent effect, preventing the moths from laying as many eggs. Spinosad works only after ingestion by the larvae, so there will be evidence of small aborted tunnels, but it should prevent the extensive curling you're seeing.
Although there may be little an individual can do about preventing pesticide resistance on a large scale, especially with a highly mobile pest like CLM, it might be best not to spray both weekly, to prevent dual resistance/tolerance. Perhaps you can use one regularly and then do occasional treatments with the other? Say, neem weekly and the spinosad once every six weeks one year and then switch for the next year - spinosad every two weeks and neem once a month? And be on the lookout for other approaches to control.
One that I've heard of, though have no experience with, is pheromone lure traps. See, e.g. http://www.iscatech.com/ecommerce/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=5.
By and large I'm wary of such products, since it seems like attracting pests is not what you want to be doing in your garden (although I believe you are supposed to place the traps some distance from host plants), but in undergrad I worked with an entomologist - and avid gardener - who was of the opinion that pheromone traps worked uniquely well for lepidoptera. Does anyone else out there have experience with these?
One other thing you could try is weighting your fertilizer applications earlier in the year to try to spur most of the new growth before the CLM populations build (assuming, that is, that they are somewhat seasonal, with populations building over the course of the summer, as they do here in the Southeast).
Finally, most of the literature suggests that CLM doesn't have significant effects on older plants (more than ~four years old). I'm sure that the mines themselves and the leaf curl does reduce the photosynthetically active area somewhat (although that also presumably allows more light to reach lower/interior leaves), but unless one is a commercial grower with thin profit margins, it seems unlikely to be significant. So, at least once the trees are older, perhaps it makes sense to focus primarily on the ACP. |
Thank you for all of your help elsedgwick. Vary valid points about rotating sprays. All of my citrus trees were planted this spring, 2013. That is why I am so concerned about CLM stunting the trees growth for the next few years.
adriano wrote: | I noticed the old trees which got hit by CLM last year, are not affected by CLM this year. Those trees produced no new growth in july and august and last year old trees had plenty of new growth in summer. The new planted trees however put out new growth which is all covered by CLM. It is like the old trees have put out new growth earlier to avoid CLM. |
Interesting observation. Thanks adriano. |
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skinn30a Citruholic
Joined: 17 May 2012 Posts: 106 Location: Santa Rosa Beach, FL 32459
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Posted: Thu 29 Aug, 2013 4:07 pm |
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I have had tremendous luck with a generic form of Admire Pro by the name of Macho 2.0. Others have had varying results but for me, its the best available. The active ingredient (Imidacloprid) is the same as the Bayer Advanced but its at a much higher concentration so you can be flexible with how much of the active ingredient that you make available to the tree. Im comfortable applying at the recommended rates for younger trees during the years that they will not be bearing fruit. You can scale back for your producing stock.
You can apply Macho 2.0 two ways as a spray from more immediate control or as a drench for long term protection from CLM & Psylids.
Spray (containerized & field): 3ml per Gallon H2O
You'll also want to add .1% (3.5ml/GalH2O) of some type of Surfactant as it will greatly improve the tree's ability to absorb the Imidacloprid.
Immediate control
Effective for +/- 10days after application
Drench (containerized):
Apply to thirsty soil
Control is achieved 2 weeks after application.
Provides +/- 60days of control
Pot Gallon Size Ml of Macho 2.0 mixed in 8oz water and applied to container media as drench :
#1 0.13
#2 0.26
#3 0.39
#5 0.69
#7 0.94
#10 1.45
#15 2.14
#20 2.64
#25 3.31
#30 4.32
#45 5.97
#65 8.38
#100 13.1
#200 27.2
Drench (Field):
Apply to thirsty soil
Control is achieved 2 weeks after application.
Provides +/- 60days of control
Mix 1/16 oz. of Macho 2.0 per small tree and 1/8 oz. of Macho 2.0 per large tree in 10 oz. of water and apply to the soil/rootstock interface.
Buy it here: http://www.keystonepestsolutions.com/macho-2-0fl-insecticide-1-pt-same-ai-as-admire-pro-nuprid-2f-247.html
Label: http://www.cdms.net/LDat/ld7DR002.pdf
Supplemental Label (spray):http://www.cdms.net/LDat/ld7DR005.pdf
Best,
Skinn30a _________________ Zone: Border of 9a/8b
-----------------------------------------------------
"but do please, Br'er Fox, don't fling me in dat brier-patch" |
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morgman
Joined: 21 Aug 2010 Posts: 15 Location: Corona, CA
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Posted: Fri 30 Aug, 2013 2:37 pm |
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Thanks Skinn30a. Awesome info. I will take a look at that product. |
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Yorgos
Joined: 20 Jan 2013 Posts: 8 Location: inside 610 Loop near Reliant Stadium, Houston, TX (zone 9a)
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Posted: Thu 13 Mar, 2014 2:55 pm |
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Being afflicted with the CLM here in SE Texas can anyone tell me when the citrus flush is past the time for concern here? I've read that once the leaves "harden" the CLM cannot use it. When does this occur? when the new leaves are 1/4"? 1/2"? Also, when does this moth begin to be active? Our day time temps are now in the 70's and nighttime in 40-50's so I am guessing they are now starting to fly. Since my citrus have flushed already the first flush should be fairly free of these pests, I think (hope).
Thanks
Yorgos, zone 9a Houston, Tx _________________ George from
Yorgos Farms |
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mrtexas Citruholic
Joined: 02 Dec 2005 Posts: 1029 Location: 9a Missouri City,TX
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Posted: Thu 13 Mar, 2014 3:08 pm |
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I've had clm hit as early as June 1, and as late as August 15 in Beaumont. |
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Yorgos
Joined: 20 Jan 2013 Posts: 8 Location: inside 610 Loop near Reliant Stadium, Houston, TX (zone 9a)
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Posted: Fri 14 Mar, 2014 11:56 am |
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Good info. Based on your experience, I think I can wait until leaf flushes in late April/May begin before I need to start bi-weekly spinosad/neem treatments. It's interesting to note that that my kumquats have been very lightly affected by the CLM. _________________ George from
Yorgos Farms |
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adriano Citruholic
Joined: 24 Feb 2012 Posts: 355 Location: Zagreb, Croatia
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Posted: Mon 17 Mar, 2014 5:26 am |
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I can not recognize pattern in clm preferences. It ate 80 % of last years new growth on tarocco and star ruby. However there was almost no touch of it on kumquats, moro, meyers and feminello lunarios. 2 years ago meyers lost all summers new growth, and last year meyes did not put any new growth in summer, like they wanted to avoid clm season. They also appear sooner every year. last year they started to appear in late april. This was very warm winter, so i guess they will come even sooner. last year i tried fighting them with coffe, but it did not work. At least coffe is good organic fertilizer. _________________ i am in love with lemon |
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