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robby_hernz Citruholic
Joined: 27 May 2011 Posts: 46 Location: Tubac, AZ
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Posted: Sun 17 Feb, 2013 7:04 pm |
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Hello,
I have several citrus trees in pots that were all thriving under 40% shade cloth outdoors in AZ. When it started getting cold I brought them all indoors and put them by a South facing window; I have my house at 69 degrees. I changed the watering pattern to once per week or sometimes every 2 weeks. I started getting some mild WLD, but it stopped right away; after a few months, however, leaves on 2 of my trees starting dropping FAST!! The two trees in trouble are my Nagami Kumquat and my Gold Nugget Mandarin.
The Gold Nugget doesn't surprise me since it never really established itlself or flushed after the bare-root repot.. but the Nagami was thriving, gave me lots of fruit and still had fruit on the tree when the leaves started to drop. Leaves started falling and it went fast!
I'm fairly new to citrus and have never experienced WLD, but this looks much more serious than that. The actual bark is dead and breaks right off. There doesn't seem to be any life left in the tree. Will it come back? Is there something I should do to nurse it back?
Thank you.
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Laaz Site Owner
Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 5674 Location: Dorchester County, South Carolina
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Posted: Sun 17 Feb, 2013 7:19 pm |
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Looks like freeze damage. _________________ Wal-Mart a great place to buy cheap plastic crap ! http://walmartwatch.com/ ...
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robby_hernz Citruholic
Joined: 27 May 2011 Posts: 46 Location: Tubac, AZ
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Posted: Sun 17 Feb, 2013 9:12 pm |
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No freeze laaz. Brought them indoors when temps started dropping below 50 degrees at night.
Could it be something else? The Kumquat had survived like 3 months of winter, still fruiting, only to start dying last month....
Thank you |
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Laaz Site Owner
Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 5674 Location: Dorchester County, South Carolina
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Posted: Sun 17 Feb, 2013 10:37 pm |
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I would look at the roots then. The first tree looks pretty much gone. _________________ Wal-Mart a great place to buy cheap plastic crap ! http://walmartwatch.com/ ...
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Sylvain Site Admin
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 Posts: 790 Location: Bergerac, France.
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Posted: Mon 18 Feb, 2013 9:07 am |
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> Will it come back? Is there something I should do to nurse it back?
There is no way back from the death.
That might have been root rot. |
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j3u5a8n Citruholic
Joined: 04 Oct 2011 Posts: 223 Location: Imperial Valley, California
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Posted: Mon 18 Feb, 2013 8:41 pm |
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Thats what I did to my first potted citrus tree.
_________________ Okay, I don't need any more trees. Look! Another tree for sale!!! |
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RyanL Citruholic
Joined: 07 Jan 2010 Posts: 410 Location: Orange County, North Carolina. 7B
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Posted: Mon 18 Feb, 2013 11:51 pm |
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No No , that is WLD. WL Dead. |
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Sugar Land Dave Citruholic
Joined: 08 Oct 2012 Posts: 119 Location: Sugar Land, TX Zone 9a
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Posted: Tue 19 Feb, 2013 1:57 am |
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robby_hernz,
I looked at your areas temperature history and you should be able to leave kumquat outside during your winters. It is very cold hardy.
The first picture shows one leaf with yellow suggesting iron or nitrogen distress, but the suddenness makes me wonder if the plant was near a heat vent.
I also might suspect the humidity in the house with the indoor heating. Do you mist your plants while inside? |
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gregn Citruholic
Joined: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 236 Location: North Vancouver, BC, Canada
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Posted: Tue 19 Feb, 2013 2:36 am |
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Robby never say never at least not yet... I have had this happen a few times ... once some of my garage kept citrus plants plants "suddenly" lost their leaves from drying out. my garage kept citrus trees do not freeze but they get very cold perhaps 35 to 40 degrees F. (which is good for Beer AND citrus !)I limit the watering but on occasion I have limited the water too much and lost leaves and twigs when the temperature in the garage rises into the 50 to 60F (10 to 15c) range in the spring. . Most occasions the plants came back to life after they were placed out in the elements again. so even though they may appear dead they may send out new shoots come spring. - It may be only the rootstock but at least it will be life.
A trick which has worked for me when bringing plants inside in cool / cold weather is to soak the pots and roots in warm water for 15 to 20 minutes prior to bringing the plants inside. This 'wakes' up the root system so that it can supply the leaves with moisture. I believe citrus root systems are inactive below 54 deg f.
It looks like your "dead" tree experienced something as I described.
Maybe some of the experts on this forum can expand on this theory...
Greg _________________ Gregn, citrus enthusiast. North Vancouver Canada. USDA zone 8. I grow In-ground citrus, Palms and bananas. Also have container citrus |
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robby_hernz Citruholic
Joined: 27 May 2011 Posts: 46 Location: Tubac, AZ
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Posted: Wed 20 Feb, 2013 3:01 am |
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I will definitely check out the roots when I get a chance to see if I can see anything obvious.
Sugarland, temps here have dropped to 14-17 degrees F this winter... It can get really cold and that is why I brought them inside. There is a heat vent close to them, but not directly on top. I have not thought to mist them, but there is a little water on the water collection dishes on bottom of pots that should create a little humidity.
I won't give up on the Nagami but I must be realistic and realize the twigs are completely dry!! Hopefully there are signs of life in the rootsystem.
I found other issues as well. I first noticed some clear sap like substance on my ruby red grapefruit and today, I noticed red scales and sap on my sick Golden Nugget. I don't see any scale on the Nagami Kumquat but obviously something went wrong went I brought them indoors. MY HYPOTHESIS: I watered too much and 69 degree temps with limited sunlight does not give the inside of the pots enough time to dry.. YAY or NAY? I am going to spray it with UltraFine Horticultural Oil but should I spray all my citrus? Does scale go from one pot to the next? I already have it on 2 of them.
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Sugar Land Dave Citruholic
Joined: 08 Oct 2012 Posts: 119 Location: Sugar Land, TX Zone 9a
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Posted: Wed 20 Feb, 2013 3:43 am |
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Perhaps one of the experts will wander in with an answer. Hort oil sounds reasonable to me, but remember, I am a terrible gardener. I've never done well with any tree that I brought inside. My guys just didn't like the change.
All my trees stay outside now and I cover only the most sensitive. A couple of summers ago, my meiwa kumquat survived an overnight temperature of 12 degrees with the following day only heating up to 24 degrees and never losing a leaf. That tree was in the ground though. |
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Radoslav Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2008 Posts: 455 Location: Slovak Republic
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Posted: Wed 20 Feb, 2013 5:05 am |
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This is a lot of scales. This number of scales can kill the twig. No need to spray it - you have small plant - just remove scales with wet sponge.
Nagami looks like typical death exhaustion. It happens often in citrus pot culture during winter, when you do not provide correct light/temperature balance. |
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robby_hernz Citruholic
Joined: 27 May 2011 Posts: 46 Location: Tubac, AZ
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Posted: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 8:39 pm |
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I have confirmed what was pretty obvious, I have officially lost my first ever citrus tree. I was surprised over how little root it had and the amount of root rot on it!!! What I don't get is that it was in 3:1 CHC/Coir mix... This should have been able to remain wet for long periods of time since it had plently of aeration on it.. Oh well, guess it prob won't be my last one although I sure hope so....
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citrange Site Admin
Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 590 Location: UK - 15 miles west of London
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Posted: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 9:05 pm |
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Quote: | I have my house at 69 degrees. I changed the watering pattern to once per week or sometimes every 2 weeks. |
To me that sounds like severe under-watering. Here in the UK, 69F is an average summer temperature and I water potted citrus at least twice a week. Your humidity in Arizona is also probably way lower than here. Are you certain your plant didn't die of thirst? |
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Millet Citruholic
Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 6657 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Tue 26 Mar, 2013 12:44 am |
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I don't see any root rot. Actually, what roots the tree has, looks to be healthy. However, there are no small roots. Two possible situations. First, is WLD. When you brought the trees indoors and sat them in the direct sunshine coming through a south facing window, was BOTH the foliage and the container's black side ALSO in the direct southern sunshine for the duration that the tree was before the southern window.. Or was only the tree's foliage in the direct sun light? If the container was not also receiving direct sun light, then I would say the problem was WLD. It is absolutely CERTAIN the tree's problem was either a root or medium problem, and not from anything concerning the foliage. 2). If the above was not the cause of the tree's demise, then I agree with Mike, the problem was from under watering. A 3:1 CHC medium is almost impossible to cause damage from over watering. - Millet |
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