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Fertilizer Rates
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Millet Citruholic
Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 6656 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Wed 17 Aug, 2011 12:41 am |
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I recently purchase a bag of fertilizer from the very well known J.R. Peters, Inc. (Jack's Water-Soluble Fertilizer). I found this recommendation printed on the front of the bag. These are general fertilizing rates, given in ppm.
................................Constant Feeding......Periodic (Every 7-10 days)
Plug Trays/Salt Sensitive.50-125 ppm.....................175-225 ppm
Woody Ornamentals........50-100............................200-375
Bedding Plants...............100-150...........................200-250
General Foliage..............100-200...........................250-300
Cut Flowers....................175-225...........................300-450
Garden/Landscape..........200-300...........................400-750
Heavy Feeders (Citrus)....200-300...........................350-400
Light Feeders (Orchids).... 75-150............................200-250
Millet (519-) |
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Karoly Citruholic
Joined: 27 Dec 2010 Posts: 231 Location: Hungary, Europe, Zone 6
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Posted: Wed 17 Aug, 2011 2:29 am |
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Thank you Millet!
Good to know, I'm using every 10-14 days 250-280 ppm of N.
So, I can give them a higher ppm of N from next year. |
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RyanL Citruholic
Joined: 07 Jan 2010 Posts: 410 Location: Orange County, North Carolina. 7B
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Posted: Wed 17 Aug, 2011 11:37 am |
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Millet, when you mix Jack's Water-Soluble Fertilizer with water, what effect dose it have on neutral water PH at the heavy feeder PPM(300-400)?
Karoly, the PPM levels are of not just N but N-P-K, so your N level is actually a little high in relation to the chart above. |
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Millet Citruholic
Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 6656 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Wed 17 Aug, 2011 11:53 am |
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Ryan's question: .....when you mix Jack's Water-Soluble Fertilizer with water, what effect dose it have on neutral water PH at the heavy feeder PPM(300-400)?".........
"Ryan, the answer to your question depends on what formula of fertilizer you dissolve. Every fertilizer formula would have a different effect. Some formulas would raise the pH, some formulas would lower the pH, some would not make much difference with the pH. Besides the fertilizer added, a good bit of the effect on pH would also be from the buffering effect of the type of medium, and the alkalinity of the irrigation water. These are, of course, general fertilizer recommendations, as to what the recommended amount of fertilizer to apply, depending on the type of plant one is fertilizing. - Millet (518-) |
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RyanL Citruholic
Joined: 07 Jan 2010 Posts: 410 Location: Orange County, North Carolina. 7B
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Posted: Wed 17 Aug, 2011 12:46 pm |
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Let me try and be more specific, If I mix Jack's Water-Soluble Fertilizer 25-5-15 with PH neutral water at a rate of 400ppm what would I expect the PH to be?(lowered, no change or increased) I am asking because I believe you use this fertilizer? |
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Millet Citruholic
Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 6656 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Wed 17 Aug, 2011 1:10 pm |
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25-5-15 has a potential acidity of 608 lbs. Calcium carbonate equivalent per ton. Therefore it is an acidic fertilizer that would produce H+ ions. 25-5-15's is a acidic fertilizer, but not as great a potential of many other types of fertilizers, 30-10-10 for example is about twice as acidic, thus has the potential of lowering the pH of a medium twice as fast. But once again, when using 25-5-15 it could lower the pH of the medium, it could have not much of any effect on the pH of the medium, or the pH of a medium could even continue to slowly rise, depending on the various buffering effects that are present, including the alkalinity of the water supply. Ryan, to answer your question, in pH nutral water, and a low buffering media, 25-5-15 would, of course, with its acidic potential of 608 lower the pH. - Millet (518-) |
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Karoly Citruholic
Joined: 27 Dec 2010 Posts: 231 Location: Hungary, Europe, Zone 6
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Posted: Wed 17 Aug, 2011 1:53 pm |
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RyanL wrote: |
Karoly, the PPM levels are of not just N but N-P-K, so your N level is actually a little high in relation to the chart above. |
RyanL, correct me if I'm wrong, Millet is using 25-5-15, so here the ppm is adjusted after N, no?
I'm using 24-6-10 + potassium nitrat to can get closer to 5-1-3. |
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RyanL Citruholic
Joined: 07 Jan 2010 Posts: 410 Location: Orange County, North Carolina. 7B
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Posted: Wed 17 Aug, 2011 2:12 pm |
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Quote: | RyanL, correct me if I'm wrong, Millet is using 25-5-15, so here the ppm is adjusted after N, no?
I'm using 24-6-10 + potassium nitrat to can get closer to 5-1-3. |
The 300ppm of Nitrogen in every watering came from I believe Millet's observation of CCPP's watering schedule. They apply in every watering 300ppm of N. They also must apply dry fertilizer(a few times a year)? as well to accompany this N at every watering. I don't know for sure, maybe Millet can confirm this? There could be all sorts of reason why they do this from climate to soil to tree size, so it may not be necessary across the board.
So the above PPM schedule from Jacks fertilizer dose not assume your starting position is 300ppm of N.
If you use jacks fertilizer at 400ppm based on the fact it is 25-5-15 = roughly 200ppm N 50ppm P 150 K. So according to jacks fertilizer this is correct for citrus on a 7-10 day schedule. |
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Karoly Citruholic
Joined: 27 Dec 2010 Posts: 231 Location: Hungary, Europe, Zone 6
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Posted: Wed 17 Aug, 2011 2:43 pm |
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Thank you RyanL!
I learn something again! |
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Millet Citruholic
Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 6656 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Wed 17 Aug, 2011 3:16 pm |
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Ryan, no I believe, as is always the case when referring to ppm, that J.R. Peters is referring directly to ppm N, and not to ppm for the complete formula. Therefore, the high rate would be 350 to 400 ppm N. Below is the instructions that are printed on the bag with the suggested feedings that are listed in the post above.
J.R. Peters instructions printed on the bag............."
SUGGESTED FEEDING CONCENTRATIONS PPM NITROGEN
Jack's Professional recommends these feed rates for the following crops. Remember to also consider plant stage, pot size, leaching faction and environmental conditions when applying suggested rates. The quality of your water source will also affect overall feed rates, frequency and other additions in order to achieve optimum growth.
NOTE: I took the liberty to write the word (Citrus) after the Heavy Feeder rates, as citrus are indeed heavy feeders.
Concerning CCPP, when Citrus Joe and I were given a private tour of the facility by Dr. Kruger, they were feeding their container trees at 300 ppm N with every watering. Every citrus tree that the CCPP has are container trees, the CCPP does not have any in ground trees. Whether they used dry fertilizer a couple times a year or not I cannot say.
Millet (518-) |
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RyanL Citruholic
Joined: 07 Jan 2010 Posts: 410 Location: Orange County, North Carolina. 7B
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Posted: Wed 17 Aug, 2011 3:25 pm |
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Millet wrote: | Ryan, no I believe that is not the case. The Peters company is referring directly to ppm N. Therefore, the high rate would be 350 to 400 ppm N. Below is the instructions that are printed with the suggested feedings that are listed above.
J.R. Peters instructions printed on the bag............."
SUGGESTED FEEDING CONCENTRATIONS PPM NITROGEN
Jack's Professional recommends these feed rates for the following crops. Remember to also consider plant stage, pot size, leaching faction and environmental conditions when applying suggested rates. The quality of your water source will also affect overall feed rates, frequency and other additions in order to achieve optimum growth.
NOTE: I took the liberty to write the word (Citrus) after the Heavy Feeder rates, as citrus are indeed heavy feeders.
Millet (518-) |
Really? they would put a ppm rate on the bag of fertilizer that is not meant for that bag of fertilizer? do they say anywhere that PPM rate is for N only? that makes no sense... I'm lost now... |
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Millet Citruholic
Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 6656 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Wed 17 Aug, 2011 3:28 pm |
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Ryan, yes. Read the heading on their instructions. I believe, that that information is printed on every formulas bag regardless.- Millet (518-) |
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Karoly Citruholic
Joined: 27 Dec 2010 Posts: 231 Location: Hungary, Europe, Zone 6
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Posted: Wed 17 Aug, 2011 3:29 pm |
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OK, now I'm really confused!
Millet, so the ppm is refering to N, I'm right?
RyanL, I think you spoken about TDS, yes? |
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RyanL Citruholic
Joined: 07 Jan 2010 Posts: 410 Location: Orange County, North Carolina. 7B
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Posted: Wed 17 Aug, 2011 4:34 pm |
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Karoly, you have been correct. According to Jacks, you could increase the baseline PPM of N to 300-400 on the 7-10 day schedule. PPM (part per million) and TDS(total dissolved solids) generally the same thing, Sorry for the confusion
Millet, just to clarify, Jacks fertilizer recommends a nitrogen base line which is displayed in PPM like you show above. On top of this baseline, do they follow up with the recommended jacks fertilizer applications for the different plant classes? |
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Sven_limoen Citruholic
Joined: 08 Apr 2011 Posts: 305 Location: Vlaams-Brabant, Belgium, Zone 8
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Posted: Wed 17 Aug, 2011 4:49 pm |
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I used this to calculate my ppm(very nice tool!):
http://www.firstrays.com/fertcalc.htm
I hope the ppm provided by Millet are for N only because I got this after calculating:
N:401 P:48 K:182
TDS: 631ppm _________________ growing (at least trying): C. sinensis, C. latifolia, C. limon, C. mitis |
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