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Matt2364



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 15
Location: Columbus, OH

Posted: Wed 28 Nov, 2007 5:08 pm

My lemon tree has been dropping a lot of leaves and some of them are turning a dark brown color and drying up. What is the problem? It was pretty cold in my room for a week and 1/2 or so, (probably around 60-65F), but not is around 68F, is this too cold? Thanks in advance for everyones help.

Also, the tree has not grown very much at all since I got it, about 1 year. Will it begin to grow a lot quicker once all of the lemons drop.

Here are some pictures:
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff141/matt2364/CIMG3171.jpg
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff141/matt2364/CIMG3176.jpg
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff141/matt2364/CIMG3172.jpg
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6656
Location: Colorado

Posted: Wed 28 Nov, 2007 5:55 pm

Two things: Do you fertilize this tree on a more or less continuous basis, and if so how often? Second, the tree's growth medium looks to be pretty much just common commercial potting soil, which is not good. Further I can see from your pictures, that the potting soil has compressed down in the container two or three inches. This mean the aeration is no longer very good.
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Matt2364



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 15
Location: Columbus, OH

Posted: Wed 28 Nov, 2007 6:13 pm

It is standard miracle grow dirt. The dirt has not shrunk down, I just did not have enough to fill it up. I use a all purpose organic plant food fertilizer every 2 months or so. The back of the package says it contains: 2% Nitrogen, 1% phosphate, and 1% soluble potash.

Is the tree suppose to grow more when the lemons have dropped, or is it suppose to grow the same amount year around regardless of the amount of lemons?
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6656
Location: Colorado

Posted: Wed 28 Nov, 2007 8:22 pm

you certainly can care for your tree in any manner that you wish, but I certainly would never use that fertilizer. A product that only contains 2 percent nitrogen, and 1 percent potassium applied once every two months is a starvation diet for your poor tree, further being organic in nature, the nutrient release rate to the poor tree will be very slow. Citrus are heavy feeders, and requires at least 20-30 times more nutrition than you are giving your tree. My recommendation is a commerical fertilizer high in nitrogen and potassium. For a container tree try to find a fertilizer with a nutrient ratio as close to 5-1-3 as possible, and fertilize the tree a BEAR MINIMUM of once a month. Twice a month would be much better. NOTE: 5-1-3 is not the fertilizer formula it is a ratio. Good luck to this tree.
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sunrisecowboy
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Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 85
Location: Denver, Colorado

Posted: Thu 29 Nov, 2007 3:45 am

Read ALL the postings on "Lemon Tree Yellow Vein" you will probably find most of your questions answered. I and most long term growers us a citrus specific fertilizer. Mine is a time release 16-4-8 w 2% iron. Good luck Laughing
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Matt2364



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 15
Location: Columbus, OH

Posted: Thu 29 Nov, 2007 3:55 am

Thanks millet. I will try to go out tomorrow and get some of this fertilizer you speak of. I will let you know how it goes.
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Matt2364



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 15
Location: Columbus, OH

Posted: Thu 29 Nov, 2007 9:02 pm

can anyone recommend a specific brand that I could find a lowes or a local garden store or something. I live down town Columbus, so hopefully I can find it somewhere.
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6656
Location: Colorado

Posted: Thu 29 Nov, 2007 9:54 pm

The brand really does not matter much. I prefer Osmocote slow release fertilizer, Dynamite is another good slow release fertilizer. You can also purchase just regular water soluble fertilizer. However, get anything that has a higher first and last number and a small middle number.
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Matt2364



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 15
Location: Columbus, OH

Posted: Fri 30 Nov, 2007 8:37 pm

Went to lowes and a garden store and no one had any fertilizer with a 5-1-3 ration. Best thing I could find was a 19-6-12 or something like that. Do you know of any specific sites that I can find this fertilizer online? I have been looking for over an hour and cannot seem to find one....Thanks again, you are a tree saver!
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delnorte



Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 16
Location: Fremont,CA

Posted: Fri 30 Nov, 2007 9:28 pm

Four Winds Growers sells a soluble product from a company called Romeo that is 24-14-14. We have used Romeo in the nursery for forty + years and know this particular formulation to be effective for citrus. I absolutely swear by Romeo!
check out
https://ssl4.westserver.net/fourwindsgrowers.com/secure/consumer/
for more info.

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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
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Location: Colorado

Posted: Fri 30 Nov, 2007 9:36 pm

19-6-12 is fine. Does it also contain trace minerals?
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JoeReal
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Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 4726
Location: Davis, California

Posted: Fri 30 Nov, 2007 11:49 pm

delnorte wrote:
Four Winds Growers sells a soluble product from a company called Romeo that is 24-14-14. We have used Romeo in the nursery for forty + years and know this particular formulation to be effective for citrus. I absolutely swear by Romeo!
check out
https://ssl4.westserver.net/fourwindsgrowers.com/secure/consumer/
for more info.


Is this good for container citruses and for how long?
I have experienced various formulations, and have always made my own based on cheap bargain prices that included micronutrients and they all work well for inground citruses. So we know that this will be effective for inground citruses.

A ratio of 24-14-14 (12-7-7) may not be a balanced ratio according to literature mentioned by Millet, IIRC, when you do a mass balance analysis, that is considering the nutrient that are lost from harvesting and leaf drop. I can see that the 12-7-7 ratio could work well even in containers, if there is sufficient leaching, as you simply wash away what the plants will not absorb. Therein lies the problem as you would waste a lot of fertilizers which in turn could pollute the streams. The ratio 5-1-3 is most appropriate to minimize wastage and other imbalances according to literature.

The 24-14-14 ratio could work if from time to time you replace potting media to reset the imbalances brought about by imbalanced nutrient supply after long term use.

So perhaps there are other details as to how the ratio 24-14-14 could work for containers, I could only speculate.

But that delnorte has shown that it is working, perhaps more details surrounding its use, the type of environment where the citruses are growing, the method of irrigation, harvesting, and other crop related management used around this fertilizer could shed more light in gaining better knowledge.
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Laaz
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Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 5682
Location: Dorchester County, South Carolina

Posted: Sat 01 Dec, 2007 12:22 am

Joe, Aaron D. is Aaron Dillon of http://www.fourwindsgrowers.com/ . They have been growing citrus for many years.

As to the plant in question, try removing the fruit for another year & then let it go. Letting a small plant try to produce fruit stresses the plant & usually results in most fruit dropping. By removing the fruit for a year will promote new growth.

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JoeReal
Site Admin
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Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 4726
Location: Davis, California

Posted: Sat 01 Dec, 2007 12:56 am

Laaz,

I am wondering just the same about proven practices of various people. Of course these discrepancies can be contextualized and resolved if other details are given. I hope Millet can chime in more on this. I used to disagree with the 5-1-3 ratio because I am more of an inground citrus grower and can tolerate wide range of formulations. One good way to resolve this scientifically is to compare 12-7-7 ratio versus 5-1-3 for the same growing conditions, and let us just say the same amount of total nitrogen as basis of comparison. Even then, based on my own unscientific trials, the container grown citruses can take on various fertilizer ratios without significant differences as long as the nitrogen amount and type is the same.


Joe
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6656
Location: Colorado

Posted: Sat 01 Dec, 2007 3:26 am

When mineral leaf content is satisfactory fertilization must replace the amount of nutrients lost to fruit or by leaching and vaporization. Loss of minerals VARIES GREATLY in relation to the amount of fruit production, soil, climate, and agricultural practices. As an approximate estimation, a yearly loss of the main elements per hectare/acre in a mature orchard producing 30 tons of fruit, is as follow: N=22Kg (195-lbs/acre); P2O5=40 Kg (36-lbs./acre) K2O=120 Kg (106-lbs./acre). These are the amounts per hectare/acre that must be replaced by fertilizing where there is a satisfactory presence of elements in leaves. These amounts have to be increased for deficiencies and high leaching. This is particularly true for nitrogen, which is easily soluble, and when applied under organic compounds, turns into gas, mainly in warm locations. There are many commercial products. They must be chosen according to the replacing of minerals and their ratio. 1(N):0.2(P2O5):0.6(K2O) =5-1-3 is the ratio of the main elements lost from a citrus orchard. Fertilization must respect this ratio when the mineral content in the leaves is satisfactory. Obviously, in cases of over dosage or deficiency of one or more elements this ratio must be changed to a more appropriate one. Phosphorous moves VERY SLOWLY in the soil, and especially in containers due to the very high organic content and can easily build up in the growth medium. Further, Phosphorous is difficult to remove from the root zone simply by leaching the container due to it being highly non soluble. Potassium moves quicker than phosphorus, but not as quick as nitrogen. Potassium is captured by the exchange complex of the growth medium. Over dosage of potassium discourages magnesium absorption. Most soil contains 2 percent organic matter, where as container growth mediums contain 85 to 100 percent organic matter. Therefore fertilization of trees in containers is much more of a concern than trees growing in the ground. Some of the resurch can be found in Dugo and Di Giacomo's The genus citrus.
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