I am new to this forum so please forgive me in advance if I am in the wrong place or overstepping boundaries.

I would like to see development of an "Organic Citrus Growing Forum". How 'bout it?

Organic citrus growing forum discussions are open to anyone wishing to develop such a resource. You can find many threads already posted on this forum dealing with the organic growing of citrus by using the search function. Due to citrus being a heavy feeding cultivar, requiring a lot of nutrition, organic culture is rarely done. Organic grown citrus always have inferior crops as compared to traditional culture. I use the word "inferior" in relation to crop load and quantity, and not necessarily to quality. You are certainly welcome to start any type of citrus culture cultivation discussions you wish. Welcome to the citrus grower forum. It is great you have joined. Take care. - Millet

This is a very easy one on the Texas coast. You can successfully grow citrus without pestisides. The only spray necessary is dormant oil to get rid of scale , mites and whiteflies. Dormant oil is non-toxic. You can also substitute cooking oil if you want. You won't be successful without spraying some kind of oil to smother the scale and whiteflies. The only pesticide I use is Conserve SC which I believe qualifies as organic. It controls all the above and citrus leaf miner as well. I spray for CLM because I grow trees to sell. CLM trees look bad but don't the distorted leaves don't affect function.

How about weed control in the orchard. I hear that vinegar and citrus oil are a great combination but at what ratios and when?

Composted Cow Manure is a great fertilizer but at how frequently and at what rates? How about injecting fish emulsion fertilizer through Anderson Fertiler Injectors or Dosatron Injectors?

And, whether you are growing young sets in containers or in the field, what are the effective pesticides and fungicides (other than oil)?

To get USDA Certified Organic commercially where do you find information that has been successfully used? Commercially, yields are lower - but prices are higher? Is price high enough to seriously pursue growing organically?

Although there is a great deal of information concerning organic farming on the internet, there is little information specifically on organic citrus farming on the internet.

That is what I hope to find here in this forum - the CIA - the Citrus Intelligence Agency, organically speaking of course.

Hi RioRed, nice to see that you found the forum.

Millet had posted this recipe (see link below) for manure that was used by Chief Gardner for the French King Louis XIV for citrus. You could use it and market the citrus as "King's Choice Organic".

link

Phillip

Thanks Dauben.

I read that recipe - man, I sure would have a hard time concocting it. I don't know about that "powdered night soil". Of course I could keep a bucket in the bathroom and make my own - - - -not.

Currently, for my seedling mix, I have gone to Lowe's and purchased 3.8 C.F. bales of Peatmoss and 50# bags of Play Sand. Lowe's is selling a 3.8 C.F. bale of Peatmoss for $9.50 each. My local nursery supplier sells the same (a bit higher quality) for $13.00 and a second local nursery supplier sell a 3.8 C.F. for $18.00!!!!!! The Play Sand has been washed and cleaned - that is why I use it. One 3.8 C.F. bale of Peatmoss, 1 50# bag of Play Sand and 4 tablespoons of Kocide mixed together in a 3/4 yard soil mixer will fill 20 flats of 45 rosepots. Looks to be a good general-purpose germination media.

Composted or processed animal manure can be used on citrus. However, nutrients from these materials become available for plant use more slowly than from synthetic, granular, or liquid fertilizers. Composted cow manure usually has less than 1 percent nitrogen with composted chicken manure ranging from 2 to 3 percent nitrogen, with both materials containing other nutrients. The amount of nitrogen you need to apply depends on the trees age. Young citrus trees require 0.15 to 0.30 pounds nitrogen per tree per year. The older the tree becomes, the greater amount of nitrogen is required. For example, to obtain the suggested 0.15 pounds nitrogen (N) using cow manure containing 0.5 percent nitrogen, you would have to apply 30 pounds of cow manure (30-lbs. cow manure X .005%N = 0.15-lbs. N). To obtain the suggested 0.15 pounds nitrogen using chicken manure containing 3 percent nitrogen, you would have to apply 5-lbs. of chicken manure (5-lbs. chicken manure X .03 or 3%N = 0.15-lbs. N). Adding composted manure at these suggested fertilizer rates will supply needed nutrients over time but will not increase soil organic matter because of rapid organic matter decomposition under high temperatures and rainfall. The amount of fertilizer applied depends on the analysis of the fertilizer you are using. (Your dooryard citrus guide) - Millet

Mr Texas,

How soon after applying Conserve SC can you eat the fruit? I have not seen this pesticide around here, but then I haven't been looking that hard.

The active ingredient is spinosad. Try looking for Fertilome citrus miner, leaf borer spray in a pint for about $16. It's quite expensive for what you get. I paid $125 for a quart of 12% which works out to 6x less expensive than the Fertilome. This is a biocide:http://members.fortunecity.com/pjsauber/LeafMiner.htm
I spray mostly on liners growing for sale every two weeks. I spray way before fruit is ready and infrequently on bearing trees. I got my Conserve SC on fleabay. I couldn't find it around here either

RE fertilizer. I think liquid is way to much work. A good mulch over a little chicken or horse manure does the trick just fine. It takes a year for the mulch to develop the soil and really work in, but after that it's an ongoing feed. It's not like the trees will come up short. The mulch keeps feeding on an ongoing basis. (Note: Don't use horse on tight soil as it tend to tighten the soil. It works GREAT on my sandy almost gravel soil.)
First year I use a layer 12 inches thick with manure scattered under it as the first layer. The second year I top dress with a little manure again and then add enough mulch to get back to 12 inch layer. The third year and after I just top dress to about 6 to 8 inches. All this material works it's way into the soil nicely. I never til. This way the soil develops good soil horizons. Good well developed soil horizons will help maximize the available nutrients.
I use drip. some prefer microspray.
I never have a weed problem. the first couple of years I went through after rain with a hula hoe. now I just go through about twice a year and chop with a "grape hoe" or "Italian hoe" type hoe (available at Ace hardware) to get the very few weeds that start.
I do light pruning about on a par with what others do, except that I do all hand pruning, I don't do machine hedging.
I am completely bug free. There is an occasional piece that gets thrip scarring, but that is much less than 5% so I consider this acceptable and not worth spraying or messing with.

Arthur, nice to see and read your postings again. You can be a good source of information and experience on organic growing. You wrote about a mulch that you add, what type of mulch material are you applying? You have been around long enough, and have read posting concerning mulch and citrus. Generally, many commercial growers state that mulch and citrus don't go together. Most groves are normally kept clean. On our farm, we use a combination of organic methods along with standard methods. Our main organic contribution is the use of growing green manure crops that we turn under. I look forward, to your postings on organic growing. I have always believed that the GROWER has much more to due with a crop's quality, than the method used to grow it. As to my use of "inferior", as it applies to growing citrus, the world only relates to pounds of fruit sold when grown organic as apposed to pounds of fruit sold when grown by standard production. Anyway, I am excited you have become a member of this forum. I know you will be a valuable asset. I don't know where you are finding room to grow dates and citrus in the Incino area, as there are now dozens of cities up in that area, along with so many new larger residential developments being built in your area. Take care, and thanks for becoming a member of the Citrus Growers forum, hope to see a lot from you. - Millet

hehee, glad to see you weren't put off by the challenge -smiles his jolly smile- I think the key to good yield in organic citrus is soil building, and that is done with mulch. I never till soil as that destroys soil structure. (google soil horizons for more about soil structure)
I use a mix of materials. I start with just about anything the tree trimming companies have chipped in their trucks. They deliver that for free. (they used to pay to drop, half the fee the dump charges, but they stopped doing that) If it's all tamirisk tree or all palm frond, these materials are tougher, woody brown materials, and require a little more breaking down before I apply and I add horse manure or chicken (or turkey) manure to the top and water it in. I usually let new chipped material sit and break down some before I apply it to my rows, but that's just because it reduces the bulk by half or more, making for less work moving the mulch to the orchard. I do not consume any time or work by turning or working the piles as compost, I just let them break down a little on their own before moving the material from the spot where it's delivered.
Then I make lasagna. A term which I invented and started using in 1978 and which Patricia Lanza asked me if she could use. No worries, I'm glad others are benefiting from it. I don't need to get rich.
So, first I clean up, and all my light prunings, old fruit, and the tiny bit of weeds all go in the mulch windrow. Next I put a good one inch layer of horse manure down over that. Last I put about 6 inches of chip mulch over that. For other crops where the fruit is further off the ground I like to put the manure on top, but for citrus, where the fruit is low to the ground, I want the manure covered to keep it cleaner.
These layers work into the soil over time. If you build a good soil this way, within 3 years your soil will be class A1 and very fertile. My sandy soil shows clear A1 soil horizons with outstanding O and A horizons in just one year.
For a new citrus orchard planting, I start with a lot more, at least double this amount for the first 2 years. and I cover a lot of area, not just a little basin around the tree, but a big wind row on both sides. Yes, a foot thick! The trees will show some sign of nutrient shortage the first year until the soil has time to build, but I still get satisfactory growth and healthy trees. By the second year, they are deep lush green and growing strong.
My area has few serious pests, but the fact that my trees are so healthy also means they are naturally more resistant to the small amount of pest activity. I do not spray or treat at all. I do watch for ants on first year trees and generally have not had problems. I encourage praying mantis, lace wing and lady bug throughout my property, and they do their part to help. Also toads and lizards. you would be surprised what a lizard eats!
I was blessed with a good price last year too. High brix and great taste help keep our customers coming back. We are a micro sized grower, selling just to a couple of small local markets and people we know. We sell out every year.

oh, I'm in Indio, east of Palm Springs, on 5 acres, not Encino which is deep in LA's urban sprawl.