I've heard a number of people screaming about the negative impacts of the government bailout, so I've been doing some research on how the bailout is going to impact the American dollar. This may be the perfect storm that tanks the American Economy particularly if China and Saudi Arabia dump US treasuries. I thought I'd post a few links if anyone's interested:

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=6442

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6kUUtRueBQ

http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/dollar-crisis-what-are-odds/5261?page=1

http://seekingalpha.com/article/97122-5-ways-to-diversify-away-from-the-dollar

Phillip

Thank you for the links, Phillip!

Sobering stuff indeed. I dumped all my stocks after the enron accounting fiasco, and invested in a gold and prescious metals mutual fund. The war was going on, and I figured that was a safe haven. It worked out well, the dramatic swings up and down could make your stomach flutter.

I'm not the economist kind of guy, but it sure looks like deep doo-doo to me. The rest of this week should be very interesting for the future of our country. If you dump your dollars tomorrow, you might get something for them, invest in the russian rouble. Nobody here will think little of you for it.
A senator from SC Jim DeMint, is so far to the right it makes me cringe, but he sure seems to be talking sense to me now. Look for this guy to start a third party canidacy for 2012.

Maybe I'm waking up from my foggy "socialist" dreams of peace, love, and big brother! Maybe not. Anyway, I'll I can do is hold on, work hard, and pray for our leaders. Oh yes, and also pray for those scum-sucking bottomfeeding bankers and brokers and anti-regulators that got us into this mess.

The last thread about this subject got deleted for some reason. It was getting a little testy about our economic system between a couple of people, and then it was gone. Most have gotten their feelings hurt and hit delete. Well, folks, like it or not, the system we have stinks, and whats coming is really gonna hurt.



Those links you provided were very informative. Thanks again!
Scott ( A man with more trees than cents, I mean sense!)

Scott I deleted the post because it got way out of context.

This is a citrus forum. I made this sub forum for everyone to discuss things besides citrus, but not to have people start bickering about bullshit that is going to do nothing but cause hard feelings between members. I hope you and everyone else understands.

I started this forum because GW got to be such a joke. I wanted a place where everyone could get together and get honest information and be able to discuss information & knowledge between each other. I really don't like talking politics here, but I am not going to tell anyone that they can't. I would appreciate that if you would like to debate politics, to please keep it to a friendly manner or better yet keep it in PM's.


Thanks, Todd

i am betting that in the long run the economy is going to be good, so i just sent in a check for $10K to invest in ETF. in 20 plus years i think i will be OK.

There is a misconception about the term bailout. This has confused even the House of Representatives who by and large vogted it down, especially the Republicans. The term 'bailout' is a great misnomer used, and no wonder why it got rejected.

For one thing, and I want everyone here to be clear on this topic, that this is not a direct bailout where the government simply throws away sack loads of taxpayer's money at the banks that were left holding the bags of foreclosed assets.

What it boils down to is that the government will be buying the foreclosed assets that have not moved for a long time. In other words, the government will be buying tangible properties that it can sell in the future. So at the very least, the government is getting real properties that it can sell sometime in the future and is not just a direct bail-out. There is some glimmer of hope that the government will not simply burn these houses down or throw them away into the ocean or give freely as pork barrel bonuses to whom they chose to do so. But with proper people that you will vote in the future, there is hope that these bought properties will be put to some good use, and perhaps, even earn a profit from them, or break even at the average, and in the worst case, recover some funds from these bought properties.

So if you cannot agree that this is what the "bailout" bill is, I think one of us is severely misinformed by the media or by others.

When the government buy these tangible, real, but foreclosed properties, it will enable the banks to obtain some money and reflect in their balances which in turn will allow them to lend money. Money that will help the burgeoning start-up companies and other new industries to scale up production. The very industries that has kept the US of A in the technological forefront, the industries that keeps giving us jobs, and making the US the technological leader in terms of innovations.

When the house of representatives voted it down, it sent shockwaves to the technological stock markets, and so we have tremendous downturn in our technological stocks. For me, this is a shame, simply because most of you and the congress have thought that this is a pure and simple bailout, when in fact it is not.

I've got a lot invested in the stock market, and I am just going to leave all of my stocks alone. I am watching the market on a half dozen other stocks, and I will buy, when or if, "good" stocks fall to a appetizing level. The best time to buy is when they are visiting the bottom. Now is also an excellent time to buy real estate.
-----------------------------
"What happened to the FREE MARKET idea? - Millet

Wonderful strategy Millet! I am with you that if you are in the long term, this could be one of the very good times to buy, especially from the panic stricken crowd.

The rejection of the misnomer "bailout" plan has sent banks into disarray, and the stockholders are scampering to stow way their money in "safer" havens. And if you are wise, it is time to make a killing of loads of money for the future.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26946046/
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/MarketTalk/story?id=5912806&page=1


Just the very fact that the house of congress is misinformed and this will send a terrible setback in terms of ripple effects across our entire economy, I WILL NEVER VOTE any member of congress who voted against the "bailout" bill, ever again, in the very same way that I will never ever vote again everyone in the current California Congress and Senate who has not done their work to pass the state budget on time. Be it republicans, democrats or any other creature for that matter, they will be off my list. I am glad the lists are publicly available.

Ahh, here'e one of the references espousing the idea of shooting the congress for voting down the bill...

From: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10053693-56.html?tag=newsLeadStoriesArea.0

Quote:

Why the credit crunch is about more than Wall Street Posted by Ina Fried I'm going to try to briefly accomplish in a few paragraphs what it seems to me our government has completely failed to do in this financial crisis. No, I don't have $700 billion of my own to shell out. But to me, Congress' failure came not today on the House floor, but over the past week as both elected officials and members of the administration failed to translate the crisis into terms that have meaning for everyday Americans. I've heard the phrases "Main Street" and "Wall Street" a lot, but what I haven't heard is plain explanations of what credit really means and how essential it is to our system of doing business. Here goes. If the credit markets should freeze up--which many say is happening and will continue without massive intervention--everyone that borrows money will face a cash crunch. That means companies that take advantage of short-term loans to get by won't be able to buy raw materials or make payroll. Even businesses that don't need short-term capital may defer purchases to preserve capital. If even banks are having a hard time getting money, what does that say for the small and midsize business? The Wall Street Journal had a story on Monday on how companies like McDonald's may face a squeeze as their franchisees are unable to get loans to purchase or upgrade stores. I suspect that is just one visible example of a growing issue for businesses across the country. We are stuck trying to move forward with new loans--essentially to keep the economy moving--while dealing with clearly bad ones of the past. While much of the attention has focused on concern over home loans, there are also construction loans and business loans that are at risk of default, risks that grow as those businesses find themselves essentially shut off from getting any new capital, extending the vicious circle. You don't have to take it from me. Here's C.H. Low, CEO of social-networking software start-up Orbius and a serial entrepreneur. "When financial markets don't function well, the ramification is broad," he said in an e-mail interview on Monday. He said he is disappointed that the bailout is so misunderstood. Even the term bailout, he said, is a misnomer. "This is an asset purchase, not a 100 percent bailout expense to taxpayer," he said. "There is risk but also possibility of making a profit. Government's main function is to do things that private sector cannot handle. This Market Stabilization Bill...is as necessary as having an Armed Forces to defend the country." Low noted that the main beneficiary is not Wall Street. "As an early stage start-up, we rely on venture investments to carry us through a few more stages before we can be self-sustaining," Low said. "With turmoil, smaller venture funds which fund many early stage companies themselves get anxious and their own investors may be affected and may affect their capital call. We ourselves planned for a rainy day but even we don't have that much for a prolonged monsoon." He said that the seizing up of credit creates uncertainty in every sector. "Doing nothing is the worst of all choices," he said. Microsoft, for its part, has also called on Congress to speedily revisit its decision. John McCrea, vice president of marketing at Plaxo (now owned by Comcast), said it was "shocking and scary that they failed to come together on an issue of such vital importance. " "I suppose my reaction's pretty similar to a lot of other people who think that we are on the brink of a very scary situation, and a lot of us thought that our political leaders were going to be able to come together and do the right thing, and put together a reasonable package," McCrea said. "I'm hopeful that they will return to work on it and get something passed soon, but I would say that there's a very big question mark hanging over all of our heads and we're seeing companies that were once considered blue-chip evaporate in days." Then, he tried to put the best possible spin on it. And it was such a good spin, I decided to leave it in. "In such uncertain times one certainly is not surprised to see an awful lot of activity in services like Plaxo and LinkedIn. Now would be a good time to make sure that one's information and network are up to date..." In terms of where things are at, Milken Institute senior fellow James Barth said that we are a long way from another Great Depression, but added that we are also far enough in that even the legislation Congress proposed isn't alone sufficient to solve it. In the meantime, cash really is king. "Any firm that has lots of cash that can tide itself over during this credit and liquidity crunch will be in far better shape than other companies," Barth said. Wedbush Morgan analyst Michael Pachter, who tracks the video game market, said his industry will suffer like any other, though he did offer a suggestion for how to make lemonade from the financial lemons being lobbed from Washington. "I think we need a game where instead of shooting (Nazis), we shoot Congress," he said. "This is embarrassing."

Eliminate ALL capital gains taxes and taxes on savings and dividends right now. Free up the capital and encourage investment. This is the kind of economic stimulus the Fair Tax would bring and if Congress is going to lose money, let them lose it with lower taxes. - Mike Huckabee - Millet

Wow Phillip, too much info here. How depressing.
I clicked on how to get good CD rates & it said "Not available". None of them are available.

I'm glad people starting to realize what the meaning "bailout" in the proper context of rescue. This time, I hope, Nancy Pelosi will keep her mouth shut during the next round of votes. If they reject the rescue plan again, the downturn will have longer lasting effect.

The fact that both republicans and democrats are showing willingness to work together to pass the rescue bill, and most people now realizing how it would hurt them if it gets voted down, the stock market is responding very well.


Stunning day for Dow: Closes up more than 450
Previous day’s carnage attracts bargain hunters that bolster markets

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3683270/

IMHO, the cause of the problem is big government as usual. The idea of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (read the federal government) guaranteeing most of the mortgages in the country is a totally insane idea dreamed up of course by the social do-gooders in big government. What the government morons have been doing is taking away the risk of mortgages defaulting from the people loaning out the money where it should be. This is called PMI or private mortgage insurance. Fannie and Freddie have been taking the risk of default with their PMI from the the people loaning the money namely pension plans, mutual funds and really the American people for a paltry low % fee every year on loans. The idiots have also been holding loans and acting like the lender of last resort as well. Let's say the PMI for a mortgage is 1%/year(seems like about what I paid for PMI once in the distant 1970s past.) The PMI(fees collected by Freddie and Fannie for taking on the risk of default) scam works fine if the rate of default is less than 1%. However if it is greater than 1% the crap hits the fan. In the good old days when I was a recent college graduate(1977), all loans with less than 20% down required PMI(I read this as if you have 20+% down you are surely a less likely default risk). The cost of the loan in higher interest rate, closing costs, and PMI were really quite a lot for the minimum 5% down loans that many people got. Only military vets could get a no money down loan. Look back at the history of Southern California housing in the late 70s. Home prices doubled in the space of 3 years, then redoubled. There were lotteries for the honor of buying a new home. Aha, $50,000 homes became $400,000 homes in the early 80s. Everything was great until the next recession. Then home prices went down 40%. I was living in Southern California when all this started to happen. We never learn do we? After 9-11 the big government bureaucrats decided, oh this time is different! We can loan out money to people who can't pay it back and we will be OK this time! They then proceeded to lower interest rates to stimulate the economy and got involved in a war paid for with borrowed money(hmm didn't that also happen in the 60s with the Vietnam war?) No need to be prudent Bankers as prices of housing will keep going on up forever!! Have you ever wondered why Bankers used to have the reputation for being stingy? It is because they wanted their money back! Fannie and Freddie then proceeded to allow creative financing like "liar loans", zero down for everyone, and loans where the borrower didn't even have to pay all the interest! All loans guaranteed by the idiots at Freddie and Fannie(which played the charade of being a private non-government company.) Oh, yes and Freddie and Fannie raised the maximum loans still qualifying as conforming from $350,000 to $750,000, no need to get those more expensive jumbo loans with their higher interest rates any more or 2nd and 3rd mortgages. They facilitated the idiots in the big cities to pay inflated prices for their homes. This time the insanity wasn't just a Southern California event, because home price inflation was happening all across n the whole country, not just the usual circus in Southern California. Oh, in Southern California, the ordinary 2000ft rancher $400,000 home became the $1,000,000 home. And the then next recession happened to start as they always do. Can the result be any less predictable than the current situation? Did we learn nothing from the 70/80s bubble? The bigger fool theory we seem to operate under works for a time, but not in the long run as usual. Those who don't studied history are condemned to repeat it as usual. Very interesting reading on Ginnie Mae, Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac on Wikepedia. Oh course it's a bailout. The banks and bondholders who put up the money and loaned it to people who couldn't pay it back should take the losses, not the Federal Government (meaning the American people.) There was no housing bubble where I live. Why should I have to pay for the excesses going on in Southern California, Florida, East Coast????