So I bought 2 trees from fourwinds (1 meyer lemon and 1 washington navel, does anyone have any tips on my washington? I see people mention it, but dont talk about it too much) and they arrived about 3 days ago. When I pulled them out of the box they looked plenty healthy, and potted them right away.
But Im not sure if my soil was well draining enough. I got some miracle grow, but could't find any potting mix without spagnum peat moss. But according to everyone else, peat is a good thing. so I want too worried about that, because fourwinds said that they ship their 2-3 year old trees with cedar shavings. I used most of the shavings and put the rest in a baggie in case I needed them later. (are shavings going to drain well enough for me?)
So when I watered for my first time, I added some plant food which I ordered along with my trees from fourwinds. I added the correct amount of plant food into the water, shook it up, and watered until I saw water draining out of the bottom. But water didnt come out until like 15 seconds later. I ended up using about 1 1/2 1/2 gallon milk cartons on the trees untill the water was draining out. So I dont think it drains as good as it is reccommended, but I think it should work. I misted the leaves every day since then, eccept for yesterday, I wanted to see if I should hold off or not.
After the first watering, I went to sleep and woke up to see that like 1 or 2 leaves had fallen off. But I read that a little leaf drop is normal and so I thought nothing of it. Later, after having my tree indoors for 2 days, I moved it outside under my auning(sp?) so that it would have good shade and have easy access. But the next morning I woke up to see that the sun was hitting on the trees directly and some of the leaves were wilting and felt soft and leathery. I imediatly pulled the auning out almost as far as it could go to cover the trees. I was gone most of the rest of the day, and when I came back, the leaves were looking better, but not fully recovered. they were still a lighter green than the rest of the leaves and curled.This was the day I didn't mist the trees.
Now, today I woke up and saw that the leaves looked better yet. still not perfect, but there was improvement. But now I nocticed that some of the leaves look like they're being eaten, some look like there are holes burned in them, some have half of the leaf missing(almost like someone took a pair of sissors and cut it down the middle), and some have white spots on them that look like water spots (you know what water spots look like, right?) I can wipe the spots off so I think I may have mites, and some have yellowish spots on them. I inspected the trees a little bit this morning for mites, but not thuroughly at all. I didn't have the time. I'll check again tonight and tommorrow morning.
Am I just being paranoid? Sorry, I know I put too much detail in there, but I AM going to grow a successful citrus tree. Thank you in advance!

Sorry about the poor quality pictures: http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa77/trunkm0nk3y/

Yes your being paranoid. Looking at your trees there is nothing wrong with them. A few leaves will always fall off every now and then for as long as you own the trees. Don't worry so much about how much water you apply to the container with each watering. When you water, water the tree WELL. About 10 to 20 percent of the amount of irrigation that you apply should drain out the bottom with each watering. Then don't water again until, when you stick you finger into the growth medium the top two or three inches feel rather dry. Also don't keep the tree in the shade, put it in the sun. The white spots are probably just water spots, I seriously doubt your tree could possible have mites in just three days time. When Four Winds was growing the trees they sat in the sun most all day. - Millet

Ok, thank you soo much for the quick reply! I thought I was just overreacting. Those holes in my leaves are just mormal, right? I'll put my trees in a spot ready for tommorrow's sunlight right before I go to bed. Also, it's really not a concern at all for me for the time being, but does anyone have any specific recomendations for some grow lights? It's still early summer, but I want to do as much research as possible ahead of time before this stuff happens. I've read that you should use grow flux lights, and other people say just mix warm and cold light bulbs(not sure if that is the correct term) for the best results. But some fixtures are like hundreds of dollars, and others are like 20. If anyone could post some links to what you use/would use, that would be excellent. Money isn't too big of a setback to me, but I'd like to keep it in the $100-$150 range at max if possible. But I don't think I'd need something that expensive for just two trees, correct? would those clamp on fixtures work well enough? Again, it's not very important to me yet, but I want to be ready for it when my cloudy, dry, cold winters come around.

Oh, I just remembered, when I put my trees in my southern exposure window for they're first few days, they got light, but my window never gets direct sunlight. Will this lighting be good enough for my washington navel oranges to ripen during my sunny days of winter?

FYI, the reason I put the trees in shade was that Fourwinds told me that it would be best to put them in shade for about a week, even after I emailed them. I guess I'll stop listening to their advice since everyone else on the net disagrees with some of the suff they say (like the soil). Can't wait for my tree to flower for the first time! Again, thank you soo much for the fast reply. I never thought that anyone here would reply so quickly.

Sorry for the double post, but I have more questions.

Since I last posted in this thread, my washington has continued to lose many leaves off of the top. Most of the tips of the branches on the top are bald and it looks rather ugly. I think this may be because of overwatering. I heard that (somewhere) if the leaf falls without the stem, it's normal. If it falls with the stem, it's overwatering. I may have reversed how that goes, but that's how I remember it. Anyway, most of the leaves have been falling without the stem, then the stem will fall after. but some of the leaves are falling with the stem too (are the stems supposed to have a double-sided leaf look to it?), which leads me to beleive that it is almost positively overwatering. Anotherthing that makes me beleive that is that none of the water drains out. I read that only about 10% of the water will stay in the pot, well 1/4 of a gallon of water on each tree, and nothing. Is there anything I can do to get my soil to drain water? I understand that repotting will put HUGE amounts of strain on the trees and not to do it.
Another theory I have read is that either the soil is too cool (below 60 F) or that the soil is covering the roots too much. I am positive that the soil isn't too cool, since my deck gets blazing hot in the morning, maybe too hot? So what I did was remove some soil to reveal the roots at the bottom of the trunk for each tree. I also decided that I will move my trees down into my yard where it will be a little cooler during the day, and back on my deck at night to keep the deer from eating them.

I would also like to note that other than my orange tree losing leaves, it looks healthier than ever. But my meyer lemon tree's leave look pale, and some yellow. SOME of the leaves look O.K. But I'm really concerned.

Just a couple quickie questions(yes more, lol, I just want to be sure). My Meyer has black shoots coming off of some of the branches, I am pretty sure they get longer everyday. They look like they were burned at one time. This is what new growth is supposed to look like, right? On my orange tree, the tips of branches(ones that have already lost all they're leaves) they are turning a brownish color. I thought I read that this is normal, but I just wanted to be sure. Please help me as quickly as possible.

PLEASE HELP ME ASAP! MY PARENTS DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE TREES ARE GOING TO LIVE AND THAT I AM JUST GOING TO KILL THEM. HELP ME PROVE THEM WRONG! I INVESTED HALF OF MY MONTHS PAYCHECK INTO THESE TREES, PROBABLY SOON TO BE MORE! DON'T LET MY MONEY GO TO WASTE!

Whoops I forgot to ask, could this all just be that the trees have gone into shock after I potted them? I read that elsewhere also. Someone should create an ultimate FAQ for all different type of citrus, so you can just refer people to one page most of the time.

I can't read the red bold letters. it hurts my eyes so much I have to close this thread.
Are you mad at us?

Changed. Lol, sorry about that, I'm not mad, I just want to make sure I catch all problems before they get out of hand.

Remove the trays from under the pots so the water can drain. I also looks like you have some grasshoppers or other insects eating the leaf...

Hey there, do you have any other plants??? You are getting too worked up. This is a fun hobby not to stress over and I have learned that common sense plays a big role in the treatment of most plants and then the knowledge of what each plant requires. I will admit that Citrus are a bit demanding but if you loose a plant now and again it happens. I lost darn near every leaf off my first tree a Limequat and had some die back and I will admit I screwed up. I had the potting soil too dense and then I transplanted it and did some root damage, experience is a good teacher so....It is alive and doing quite well and survived the winter indoors and I have no grow lights no fancy equipment and I treat them pretty much as my other plants and my orchids, which have no fancy stuff either. Relax, and enjoy, this hot weather has been awesome for growing.

When a citrus leaf falls normally from a branch the entire leaf blade and leaf petiole (stem) detach and fall. Under certain forms of stress only the leaf blade will fall leaving the leaf petiole still attached to the branch. When a container citrus tree looses leaves and the small branches then begin to turn brown and die back it is almost always caused by root damage. The MOST common cause of root damage to a containerized tree is over watering. If your trees growth medium is hard, compact, and retaining water for extended periods of time, then the important soil oxygen level is certainly low and the carbon dioxide levels (from the roots) is probably reaching a high level. A good container potting medium with excellent aeration and drainage, should be rather easy to push your finger in at least three inches. Further when a container is ready to be watered, a good medium will hold a lot more than 10 percent of the water applied, while still providing adequate oxygen. An average size container will normally require more than 1/4 gallon water to properly irrigate the soil. Pour enough water until 10 percent of the water applied drains out the bottom of the container, then DO NOT WATER again until the top three inches feel rather dry. Lastly, when a tree is properly repotted using adequate care, a citrus tree will suffer VERY LITTLE OR NO stress at all. Get yourself a soil thermometer and try to maintain a soil temperature between 65 - 95F. A black container setting in the sun for an entire day can reach temperature of 140+ . High temperature can easily cook/kill the root system., especially on the sunny side of the container. All in all you are killing your tree with kindness. It is very common for many if not most new growers kill their first couple trees. - Millet

Ok, sorry for getting so worked up. I think that I am cooking my roots in the blazing morning sun which has caused root damage. The reason that I beleive this is that just yesterday, it stayed cloudy and cooler than normal all day. Eventually, it started to really pour down. I decided that I would leave my trees out in the rain for a good 15-20 min. just to see how they would react. after those 15 minutes I pulled my trees back under my deck and left them there untill the rain stopped. Later that night, I was amazed at how much greener my meyer looked after that rain. All but like 5 leaves were a dark, lush green color. My washington looked about the same as it's leaves are always very green. Now this morning my meyer has returned to it's more pale-yellow state. I am pretty confident that my orange tree has slowed down leaf loss if not completely stopped. So I am going to start leaving them on my deck overnight to avoid the morning sun, and I am going to stop trying so hard to give my trees direct sunlight all day. I also stuck my finger into the soil and it was rather easy to stick it in 3 inches (this was while it was still saturated with yesterdays water). Should I still follow through with repotting?

My mom was talking to some guy we know whow grows tons of trees and other plants and he said it is impossible to overwater a tree outside. He said out of all of the container trees he has grown, he has never overwater one and he waters them every day. Are citrus just alot more sensitive to overwatering than any other plants? My dad refuses to beleive me when I say that they only need to be watered once a week (APRX.) I gave up on my moisture meter because it was always telling me that the soild was at a 4. I've also heard that these things are almost never accurate. What are your experiences?

One last thing, I read on another forum that one guy said to never water your tree during the day because the water would magnify the sun's light and burn your leaves. Another guy tried to argue with him so I am asking the experts here.

Sorry for all of the long posts. I try to keep them short, but as I type them, one thing leads to another, and soon enough I have this huge post.

I had to laugh. That "guy" you spoke of on another forum was probably me.

The original question came from someone wanting to know if it was a good idea to mist their plants during the heat of the day in the intense, hot sun.

Being an herb gardener first and foremost (I'm just learning citrus, and having fun BTW)....I know it's not a good idea to mist plants while the heat of the sun is beating down on them at high noon. In herbs, this leads to leaf burning (I've seen it happen) whereas the sun's ray's catch those water droplets and intensify their power and burn the leaves.

I didn't see where citrus would be that different. Sure, the leaves aren't as tender as herbs are. And in Florida, for example, it's raining one minute and the next the sun is out and shining. So maybe it's not that big a deal.

But I still stood by what I said. Misting your trees in the heat of the day with blazing hot sun just doesn't seem like a smart idea. Nor do I think it will do the citrus one bit of good. Now feeding via the foliage when the sun has gone down (for example with a deodorized fish emulsion, mixed to specifications) does do some good, as my trees have responded well to that. But I've never overdone it. Feeding, through the foliage (would say "foliar feeding", but my dictionary doesn't recognize foliar as a word!), is something that I think is often overlooked when attention is focused so much of the growing medium and nutrients in the soil....just as important I realize.

But, true to that forum, there was someone ready to jump in and contradict what I said. And it's not so much the contradiction that gets me. If you know something more, then I'm all open for listening and learning. I've already admitted to being new and learning. It's the "I know more than you do" attitude. And "You're just wrong." I honestly have finally had the house fall on me where I will read through that forum, but am not going to post there. I mean, why bother when they're someone ready to turn around and knock down every word of advice you've given?

I like this forum must better. Folks around here are much more adult in their discussion and exchange of ideas. The other forum, they condradict one another and bicker back and forth because each person feels they are more of an expert than the next. There's are several know-it-alls and many, many holier-than-thous with attitude so thick you could fertilizer your plants with it.

And in most, if not all, of my posts, I always start off saying (not verbatim)
I'm new to citrus, but have several healthy trees and here's what valuable information I've learned in a short time that my trees have responded well to and I'm passing it on. I'm no expert.

Hand misting of citrus trees is of VERY VERY LITTLE VALUE. Purdue University's research into the matter of hand misting citrus showed it is a waste of time and personal effort. The duration of the mist when done by hand misting is of such short duration as to provide no value to the tree. To follow up on gborosteve's thread above, the reason rain does not cause trouble when it falls in the middle of the day, is because the rain cools the air. Further rain mostly fall in the evening after the air cools, the cooler air cannot hold the amount of moisture that the warm air had absorbed during the heat of the day, thus it falls. - Millet

Ok thanks for the tips. Mb misting at night would be more effective after it's cooled down a bit? What about watering? and do you all think that my potting mix is good enough to keep as is? As I said, leaf drop has some to a minimal, so I'll just keep them where they are unless one of you dissagrees. And I agree, the other forum is filled with people bickering back and forth. From now on I'll only be listening to the info give out on this forum.

Junglekeeper thanks for that link. I come home every day for lunch & when it is excessively hot & humid I spray all my citrus trees with a mister on the hose & have never had any ill effects...All of my citrus are in full sun except for the variegated Buddha's hand which burns without anything if left in full sun...