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When can you count your graft as being successful?

 
Citrus Growers Forum Index du Forum -> Tutorials (Grafting and budding)
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dauben
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 963
Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A

Posted: Thu 13 Mar, 2008 2:11 am

This is probably covered somewhere else, but I couldn't find it with the search terms I was using. How long after you did your grafting can you say your graft was successful. I grafted a dozen branches about two weeks ago and most of my grafts now have blooms and/or green leaves growing on them. Can I say these were successful or is there still a potential for failure? The grafts I did were cleft and verneer.

Thanks,
Phillip
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JoeReal
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Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 4726
Location: Davis, California

Posted: Thu 13 Mar, 2008 4:43 am

Next year, if they resprouted and are vigorous, then they are truly successful. If they died or are lethargic next spring time, then there could be incompatibility issues.
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dauben
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Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A

Posted: Thu 13 Mar, 2008 11:01 am

JoeReal wrote:
Next year, if they resprouted and are vigorous, then they are truly successful. If they died or are lethargic next spring time, then there could be incompatibility issues.


Thanks Joe. I was hoping that I would be out of the woods. These were all of the scions that you had sent. So far so good with all of them!!

Phillip
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Skeeter
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
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Location: Pensacola, FL zone 9

Posted: Thu 13 Mar, 2008 11:36 am

Joe is probably right to suggest a yr or more to declare ultimate success (or failure), but if you have blooms and leaves now, you are probably 90% there. Most of the failures I have had happen in the first few weeks. I have had a few that failed after I thought I had at least gotten it to take but before I got any growth. I have not had any that died or showed weak growth after the initial growth--clearly some have been more vigorous than others, but all of my first grafts are now flushing for the second yr.

I did have 3 of what I thought were blind buds break a yr and a half after grafting (they were clearly green but did not break when forced last spring)--we will have to see if those show weak growth in the long run.

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Skeet
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JoeReal
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Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Location: Davis, California

Posted: Thu 13 Mar, 2008 12:06 pm

Skeet is right on. If you have a sprout that didn't die after a couple of weeks, it is more like 95% successful graft.

With my own convention or terminology, you will have a TAKE if the grafted scion is alive (remained green) after a few weeks. But to declare that a Graft is a SUCCESS would require longer observation to make sure you can assess long term compatibility.

Sometimes I had grafts that bear quality fruits that same or next year only to die the following year after fruiting. Sometimes I had thought that I had bud takes that failed but they sprout three years after if they were not swallowed by the callous of the host.

The definition of success or failure can get blurred by our personal scale of time.
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Laaz
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Joined: 12 Nov 2005
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Location: Dorchester County, South Carolina

Posted: Thu 13 Mar, 2008 2:05 pm

They way I look at it is if the bud is still green three to four weeks after the budding / grafting it was a success. Compatibility on the other hand can show up years later. Once you unwrap the bud & it remains green, your graft was a success. Now if you grafted a blind bud it will never produce and if you budded a incompatible scion it will fail sooner or later...

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Mark_T
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Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 757
Location: Gilbert,AZ

Posted: Thu 13 Aug, 2009 2:11 am

what is blind bud?
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6657
Location: Colorado

Posted: Thu 13 Aug, 2009 2:50 am

A blind bud is a "bud" without an eye. Never used for propagation. - Millet - (1,253-)
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Mark_T
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Joined: 30 Jun 2009
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Location: Gilbert,AZ

Posted: Thu 13 Aug, 2009 4:11 pm

millet do you have a picture?
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JoeReal
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Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Location: Davis, California

Posted: Thu 13 Aug, 2009 5:25 pm

No need for the picture. Take a look at a pencil-sized diameter branch of a citrus tree. The bud to where very first leaf starting from the base of that branch is almost always a blind bud, 99% of the time. It is like a small flat dimple. It is the first couple of buds (or sometimes up to the first three) coming from the base of the branch that are blind buds, with the first one as being a blind bud of highest probability.
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Mark_T
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Posted: Fri 14 Aug, 2009 1:50 am

Thanks Joe. One more question, is there something that qualifies growth as a sport? Is a sport different that just normal growth?
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JoeReal
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Location: Davis, California

Posted: Fri 14 Aug, 2009 4:04 am

reversethong wrote:
Thanks Joe. One more question, is there something that qualifies growth as a sport? Is a sport different that just normal growth?


A sport is usually a desirable mutation of the budded cultivar. When it mutates it will have its own character so that any graft from that mutation when confirmed to carry over during subsequent grafting will help establish it as a sport mutation. Oftentimes you won't know because it will be the fruits that would be slightly different. The most common sport mutation that you know right away is the variegation.
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Mark_T
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Posted: Fri 14 Aug, 2009 11:30 am

Thanks that makes more sense. What's a chimera?
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fofoca
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Joined: 24 Jun 2009
Posts: 97
Location: SF Bay Area, California

Posted: Fri 14 Aug, 2009 7:57 pm

A chimera has a mixture of tissues/cells with different genetic codes. For example, in variegated plants where the white part has a defect in chlorophyll production and the green part is normal.
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Mark_T
Citruholic
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Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 757
Location: Gilbert,AZ

Posted: Fri 14 Aug, 2009 11:58 pm

I've been reading the notes on the UCR citrus pages and see that term a lot. It seems many are removed.
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