I'm down to these 2 choices for latest new orange tree for the spring planting....Can you offer any advice of taste from fruit you've had ? The main purpose will be for juice, so I'm looking for flavor and quantity !! ANy input appreciated...THanks..EZ

According to the USDA's GRIN database, Summer Gold (assuming this is the Summer navel you are referring to) is a sport of Washington. I would expect this to mean that its juice would be susceptible to the bittering problem common to navels. There is a compound in the juice (someone else jump in here with the name) that turns bitter soon after the juice is extracted.

The most common complaint of Trovita is its seediness, which shouldn't be a problem if you are mostly interested in juice. Also, Trovita is said to adapt well to coastal as well as desert conditions, so it should perform well for you in Livermore.

Kent

Summer Gold http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1586934

Trovita http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1434541

Hi ez$$,

This is the first time I am able to help someone else. I'm a newbie and have only been asking. I could not remember the name so had to look up one of my postings on the GW.

Anyways, Malcolm Manners told me that Navels contain Limonin. A material that oxidizes on contact with the air, to give the juice an "off" taste within a few hours after squeezing. Valencia and the "orange-like " types would be o.k. He further state that if you do juice navels,you would need to drink it very fresh; it won't keed no matter what you do.

Hope that helps.

So, do you mean to tell me that Valencia and other sweet (non navel)types keep higher quality juice longer than Navel Oranges ?? Is this compound in Mandarins as well ?

I read to Trovita and Summernavel are BOTH sports of Washington...BUT, Trovita does not have a navel...SO....

Can you offer me more advice on this subject...??

You are welcome ez$$. I really am glad to help.

I only just learned this information myself. Yes, they will keep their flavor.

I know that Valencia are excellent for juicing. I am told that Hamlin and Parson Brown are good for juice. This is what I found (so far) to contain Limonin: Orange tree (Citrus sinensis); Lime tree (Citrus aurantifolia); Lemon tree (Citrus limonia) and Grapefruit tree (Citrus paradisii). As far as I could find out Mandarins do not (someone correct me if I am wrong) contain limonin. Sorry to tell you but I found that Trovita is Citrus sinensis.

Sincerely,

From the UC Riverside Citrus Variety Collection website: "Trovita (VI 116) originated at the Citrus Research Center in Riverside in 1916 as a seedling from a fallen fruit that was presumed to have come from a Washington navel tree." Even if that is true, that's different than having been propogated from a sport. The University of Arizona Cooperative Extension, among other sources, categorizes Trovita as a sweet (juice) orange and not a navel.

Also, Trovita is commonly described as a vigorous grower, not a common trait among navels, particularly Washington, from what I've read.

Kent

Further information I found on Trovita is that is a widely adaptable thin skinned orange which develops excellent flavor without the heat required by other varieties. Also produces heavy crops of fruit in desert heat. Great for juice or eating. Evergreen. Full sun. Tall, upright-growing to 20 to 25 feet tall and wide. I don't know about you but to me this is confusing to me. You may want to visit this website I found. You need to scroll down just a bit to read about the varieties of orange.


http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/orange.html

OK...I've re-read a few books at home, and they do make mention that "navel" orange flavor changes pretty dramatically within 4 hours....BUT, that other citrus juice keeps well for 36-48 hours under proper refrigeration....(I wonder how the juice MFG's say you have 7-10 days to use, within impact to quality)....

So, now I'm switching the debate to Midknight Valencia or Shamouti ??
Or better yet...Does Trovita have the "navel" curse, even though it has no navel ?? Does this phenom have to do with the formation of the navel, or what ????

Thanks,

For me, I would go with the later maturing cultivars for our area, and that would be MidKnight. I'd like to have both on one tree, as usual.

The bitterness or more technically all citruses suffer delayed bitterness due to triterpene compounds such as limonins and nomilins which are predominantly present in Navel oranges and mandarins. When you juice them, the precursor of these compounds such as their acid counterparts, limonic acid, get extracted readily from the membranes and perhaps the rinds when pushed against a typical juicer, unlike valencias and other sweet oranges. The high concentration means that it gets bitter quicker than other oranges. So they are eaten fresh instead or juiced and immediately consumed.

There are some ways to delay further the onset of bitterness, increasing it from 4 hours to a couple of days but would dramatically change their flavor. I for one love to add vodka or gin to the orange juices, and it so happens that this will delay the bitterness. Another is to add ascorbic acid, ever wonder why you always see ascorbic acid as added ingredient to the natural orange juice concentrates? Of course when you add ascorbic acid, the juice will taste like medicine, so I settle with vodka or gin if I can't drink the juices right away, LOL. I can also press half of the navel orange fruit juice unto a glass of wine and drink it fresh, makes wonderful beverage.

Other ways of mitigating the bitterness is simply to add more Valencia Orange juice, a technique used by commercial juicers.

Sweet oranges, according to FAO, include Navels, Valencias, pigmented, blood and acidless oranges. Thus being classified as sweet orange doesn't mean it's juice will not turn bitter. All of the juices will have varying degree of bitterness at varying times. The navels and mandarins are the fastest to do so, like within 4 hours even if refrigerated, faster if not.

Here's a nice link (highly credible scientific organization) about why most foods are bitter:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/6/1424#SEC4

Joe is correct, you have to be careful about use of the term sweet orange. The Arizona source I cited uses sweet orange to refer to non-sour oranges as a group, as well as a subset of that group that is other than navel, valencia, or blood. That is why I put juice in parenthesis. I probably should have included [sic] as a qualifier to the reference to sweet orange.

Kent

I read that Shamouti is similar to Valencia, but sweeter in taste.
Anyone have first hand experience with this?
How does it taste?
Also I read that they are susceptible to Alternaria, a type of fungas. What is it and is that why I further read that they are prone to alternate bearing?
Does the susceptability decrease with grafting?
What does alternate bearing mean?
Now I'm interested in getting a Shamouti. All I had to do is hear that it is sweeter than Valencia. I just LOVE SWEET
orange anything.

Thanks

Thanks for all the input...I went back to previoous threads, read more on each variety again...and came to the conclusion that CARA CARA was the one to put in...

Why not buy all of them as I have done. You have plenty of space in your yard. Even put them on a 15 gallon pot so your question will be answered by tasting them on hand when they fruited. You'll be surprise how delighted you will be because each one has its own unique delightful taste as well.

For those wanting to plant only the best, I am raising the flag of caution here,

You most probably will end up like me, Benny, or EZ, extremely addicted and end up trying everything, getting extremely creative on how to fit everything.

I started off by doing extensive research as to what is the best if I were to have one plant only.... I tasted various fruits from my friend's yards, here and there and all over California, and grocery stores, farmer's market. Conclusion, the same as what Benny have correctly stated.

And the rest is history... I have more than 60 citrus cultivars in only 9 planting holes.

Stop while, you still can, and don't say we didn't warn you.

Exactly as Joe says so well....and I just told my kids that they have to eat 2 fruits everyday now, until all the orange color is gone from my trees....I'm creating future Citrus Addicts.

BENNY !! You are the man....I was just thinking the same thing last night, as I was following my own advice ( 2 orange things per day (MINIMUM)).

I was amazed that even now this time of year...the GREAT taste of the following :

Washington Navel, Lane Late Navel, Valencia, Algerian Clementine, and Minneola...not to mention the yellow one (OroBlanco). I was truly amazed that Lane Late and Valencia were so good...so early...

Anyways....I'm headed to putting more in, exactly as Benny advised. Whether it's the green leaves all 'round season, flower smell, honey bees...amazing fruit taste, amazing juice..and now many heath benefits !!
My wife used to be pissed off that I spent so much $$ and time on the citrus grove..but now her Dr. is perscribing the juice for health reasons...

So, as this weather breaks, and I finish grafting stone fruits...then head down to Menlo Growers in Gilroy for 4 new "in ground" varieties :

CARA CARA...MELO GOLD...PIXIE...ENCORE

Thanks for all the inspiration and information on "best varieties" !!


EZ