|
Citrus Growers Forum
This is the read-only version of the Citrus Growers Forum.
Breaking news: the Citrus Growers Forum is reborn from its ashes!
Citrus Growers v2.0
|
|
|
Author |
Message |
Evaldas Citruholic
Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Posts: 303 Location: Vilnius, Lithuania, Zone 5
|
Posted: Wed 31 Mar, 2010 2:22 pm |
|
How much roots a Calamondin is supposed to have?
Because I was replanting my Calamondin yesterday, I was soaking it in water to get all of the nursery soil off the roots, and I used chopsticks as a tool. So the roots were VERY fragile, the small ones pulled away as if it was hay. So after the "torture" the about 35 cm (14") tall Calamondin tree was left with less than a fist size rootball. I didn't pluck any of the big roots.
Do you think the tree will be fine??? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BasementArboretum
Joined: 22 Jan 2010 Posts: 12 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA, zone 4
|
Posted: Wed 31 Mar, 2010 8:07 pm |
|
Evaldas,
This is completely normal. There are many posts on this problem, and my plants had the same problem with a lime tree and a lemon tree. My lime tree was about the same size as yours and had a very small rootball, and less than a year later it is filling a "1 gallon" pot (actual pot size is about 3 liters). I followed the general growing advice here and on another gardening website, and my plants are growing strong.
Get them in a well aerated mix, and they will probably be fine. Let them settle in, don't fertilize heavily, and relax. This is a hobby. Hobbies are fun. There are a lot of posts on general care, so while your tree is settling in, keep reading. If there are a lot of brown, mushy roots, you may have some work to do, but once it is in an aerated mix, it is really up to the plant. Do a search of the forums for root rot, but do not stress out.
The mix that they were planted in when you bought the plant was probably designed to minimize watering in a relatively hot, dry place wherever the nursery was (Spain?). It was probably also designed to provide a good environment for the plant just long enough to grow it to size and then sell it. I am not criticizing the nursery--it is just economics. Cheaper to make and easier to take care of means more profit.
Good luck,
Eric |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Evaldas Citruholic
Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Posts: 303 Location: Vilnius, Lithuania, Zone 5
|
Posted: Thu 01 Apr, 2010 5:15 am |
|
My tree is growing in pine bark and peat moss mix (~3:1 ratio) in a 17 cm in diameter pot
The tree had been grown in Holland. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BasementArboretum
Joined: 22 Jan 2010 Posts: 12 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA, zone 4
|
Posted: Thu 01 Apr, 2010 11:18 am |
|
I knew that a lot of plants went through Holland, and that a lot of flowers came from Holland, but I did not know that citrus was grown there. Odd, considering the latitude and temperature. You learn something new every day . . . |
|
Back to top |
|
|
C4F Citruholic
Joined: 12 Feb 2010 Posts: 139 Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA
|
Posted: Thu 01 Apr, 2010 9:11 pm |
|
Hmm... Whenever I see roots "pulling away easily as if hay" it's on a tree that has suffered. Not as much concerned about fist-sized rootball, rather Evaldas implying there is a lot of root LOSS.
This happened to me this last winter. We had an unusual early and severe frost (for my area) and all my container trees were exposed for much longer than they should've been. The foliage was covered, but the container itself, ie. the root temps fell well below 45F.
Just a few weeks ago, I decided to take a look at the trees showing the frost die back. All of them had greyish (not white nor brown) stringy roots that fell right off as the OP described. What remained was about fist sized also. The leaves had definite signs of frost damage but hung on the tree normally. When the warm temps arrived, 75F, near total dessication.
I wouldn't call it normal for other citrus as the roots on healthy trees should be whitish/yellow and strong (even the thin ones) that don't come off easily.
I've over 40 trees in containers, but I've never owned a Calamondin. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BasementArboretum
Joined: 22 Jan 2010 Posts: 12 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA, zone 4
|
Posted: Fri 02 Apr, 2010 5:35 pm |
|
C4F,
I agree, the roots coming away is not good which is why I suggested he read up on root rot, just in case. I should have said it is completely normal for the little trees purchased at garden centers in northern climes. Coming from the central valley, you probably would not even look at some of the trees they sell here because they are in rough shape--undersized, overferted, badly pruned. The same thing happened to both of my tiny citrus as happened to the OP. The peat and fine roots were almost indistinguishable, and I pulled off a bunch of them during the repot, but reading the advice on here was all it took to get both of them back on track. Some mushy roots and small residual rootballs were not a deal breaker. By they way, I had no leaf loss after repot in summer. I may have just gotten lucky.
I was just trying to encourage him to read more about the nutrition, root temps, WLD and all of the other stuff. He has multiple threads on each problem, and I do not think anyone has a good overall picture of the tree. He seems to be stressing about each issue, and I was encouraging him to relax and read up. Once he reads and develops a comprehensive idea of what needs to be done, it will hopefully click, and he will be much less anxious.
Thanks. I did not mean to be cavalier about root rot.
Eric |
|
Back to top |
|
|
C4F Citruholic
Joined: 12 Feb 2010 Posts: 139 Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA
|
Posted: Sat 03 Apr, 2010 4:47 am |
|
Interesting and thanks for the info Eric.
Keep us in the loop Evaldas on your tree!
Good luck. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Evaldas Citruholic
Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Posts: 303 Location: Vilnius, Lithuania, Zone 5
|
Posted: Sun 04 Apr, 2010 3:54 pm |
|
BasementArboretum wrote: | I was just trying to encourage him to read more about the nutrition, root temps, WLD and all of the other stuff. He has multiple threads on each problem, and I do not think anyone has a good overall picture of the tree. He seems to be stressing about each issue, and I was encouraging him to relax and read up. Once he reads and develops a comprehensive idea of what needs to be done, it will hopefully click, and he will be much less anxious. |
Of course I'm stressing! I bought this beautiful Calamondin tree in the middle of January, since then it has been taken out of its pot and got its roots wildly disturbed three times! After last time it ended up having a rootball smaller than a fist.
I had 4 citrus plants before, including a Calamondin and I ended up throwing all of them out at once, because of not willing to take any action to save the trees. But this time I wanted it to be different, I wanted to do as much as possible to make the tree happy. Obviously I'm not succeeding.
Look how the tree looked in the first days of purchase:
And here how it looks now:
You may say "oh, it doesn't look so bad" or something... But trust me, in reality, it looks MUCH worse - I had to thin all the fruit, it's loosing its leaves rapidly, it lost about a hundred leaves since the purchase, almost half of the leaves that are now on the tree have yellow spots on them. It's pretty much bald at one side, that you can't see in this picture, not only does not it have leaves, but branches as well.
I hope now you can understand better of what I'm going through.
And now please give some good news and tell me those are buds that soon are going to turn into new leaves:
And if they are, how long that should take?
Thanks for your attention. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
anglichanka
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 Posts: 10 Location: Ukraine
|
Posted: Sun 04 Apr, 2010 4:31 pm |
|
Evaldas, if I were you, I would increase humidity. Spray the leaves with warm water, put a transparent plastic bag on top of the tree and tie the bag around the trunk, leaving the surface of the pot open. Air it every day to avoid rot, then spray with warm water again, use a new bag every 2-3 days. I would also treat the plant with some adaptogen, like Epibrassinolide.
Do not disturb the roots any more. Good luck. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Evaldas Citruholic
Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Posts: 303 Location: Vilnius, Lithuania, Zone 5
|
Posted: Sun 04 Apr, 2010 4:43 pm |
|
anglichanka wrote: | Evaldas, if I were you, I would increase humidity. Spray the leaves with warm water, put a transparent plastic bag on top of the tree and tie the bag around the trunk, leaving the surface of the pot open. Air it every day to avoid rot, then spray with warm water again, use a new bag every 2-3 days. I would also treat the plant with some adaptogen, like Epibrassinolide.
Do not disturb the roots any more. Good luck. |
I've just done it. But that got me thinking - the tree is standing on a windowsill and every day for a few hours the sun shines onto it, so the temperature on that windowsill gets easily above 30C, and with that bag on the temperature in there it will get above 50C. Or should I remove it now from the windowsill (the tree)? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
anglichanka
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 Posts: 10 Location: Ukraine
|
Posted: Sun 04 Apr, 2010 4:49 pm |
|
What about shading with a gauze? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Millet Citruholic
Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 6656 Location: Colorado
|
Posted: Mon 05 Apr, 2010 12:18 am |
|
Placing a plastic bag around the tree's foliage and tyeing the bag to the trunk, does not allow the tree to transpire, nor consume CO2, the tree's food source. This would be an additional stress to an already stressed tree. Personally, that would be a treatment that I would not use. - Millet (1,017-) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BasementArboretum
Joined: 22 Jan 2010 Posts: 12 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA, zone 4
|
Posted: Mon 05 Apr, 2010 10:49 am |
|
I know you are stressing, as I was, and I think many of us do, but once I stopped stressing, all of the different pieces of advice that I read fell into place and the cultural needs of the trees made a lot more sense. I wonder if you are "not seeing the forest for the trees". Stress can make you concentrate on each small detail but not be able to see the big picture.
Looking at some of the other threads I may have missed it, but has anyone asked about root temps?
Do you know the temperature of the rootball? Not the air around the pot, but down in the root mass? If you do not have a soil thermometer, a meat thermometer works well. 70 F or about 21 C is a good target, but it will depend on other environmental factors, and you may have to adjust. A plant heating mat works well, but you may have to put it on a timer and/or thermostat.
If the window area is that sunny and warm, your leaves may be getting shocked with the high temps, and if the roots are not working optimally at the moment when that hot sun hits, you get WLD (winter leaf drop). There are a lot of threads on this. Leaf temp goes up and they lose water, root temps lag behind and the roots cannot supply the leaves, so the tree sheds the leaves to avoid more severe damage by drying out completely.
Search WLD and see if some of the other threads or the sticky on winter growing help out. If root temps have been addressed in another thread and I missed it, I apologize.
Eric
Edit--I missed jrb's update to the What's wrong with my tree? thread. He got to it first. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
anglichanka
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 Posts: 10 Location: Ukraine
|
Posted: Mon 05 Apr, 2010 2:24 pm |
|
Millet wrote: | Placing a plastic bag around the tree's foliage and tyeing the bag to the trunk, does not allow the tree to transpire, nor consume CO2, the tree's food source. This would be an additional stress to an already stressed tree. Personally, that would be a treatment that I would not use. - Millet (1,017-) |
Millet, thanks for correcting me, I need to think this info over...
I trust to your experience endlessly, so this post is not meant to contradict, but to explain my point of view.
As citrus trees are very fussy about air humidity and won't grow if the air is too dry, I apply this technique to recently transplanted plants, especially if the root damage occurrs.
Spray the leaves with clean water, cover the foliage with a clear plastic bag, gradually let it adjust to drier air by taking off the bag several times a day, then more often and for longer periods, until the plant adjusts completely.
If you keep the ambient humidity up, the plant will pull from the air and less so from the leaves.
Or so I used to think
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Evaldas Citruholic
Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Posts: 303 Location: Vilnius, Lithuania, Zone 5
|
Posted: Mon 05 Apr, 2010 3:22 pm |
|
The last picture: are those are buds??? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Informations |
|
Our users have posted a total of 66068 messages We have 3235 registered members on this websites
|
Most users ever online was 70 on Tue 30 Oct, 2012 10:12 am |
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
|