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Citrus Growers Forum
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Iron Chelate Overdose
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Tepary
Joined: 01 Oct 2010 Posts: 8 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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fred Citruholic
Joined: 16 Oct 2009 Posts: 134
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Posted: Mon 04 Oct, 2010 4:13 am |
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I think your potting mix might have something to do with it.
The repotting / potting up process is important- that needs to be done correctly
The brown spot i think is a "burn" weather from chemicals or the sun i am not sure- I suspect chemicals.
Hopefully some of the forum experts will chime in and help you out.
fred |
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RyanL Citruholic
Joined: 07 Jan 2010 Posts: 410 Location: Orange County, North Carolina. 7B
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Posted: Mon 04 Oct, 2010 1:06 pm |
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An option to think about that may sound a little extreme would be to completely change your medium again to a better quality free draining mix. (don't use garden soil) You can then apply the correct ratio of nutrients + the additional iron needed. Something like ironite plus has worked for me in the past to resolve stubborn iron deficiency's - its not perfect, but it works. 10% iron at 6 tablespoons per gallon seems tremendously high, even if that's the labels recommendations - the lable is probably referencing large in ground trees at that application rate.
There is only so much flushing the medium will do and if you don't act quickly the trees could die or become severely stunted. Monitor the trees closely, if they don't improve or decline I would replant in fresh medium as soon as possible. |
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Tepary
Joined: 01 Oct 2010 Posts: 8 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Mon 04 Oct, 2010 2:56 pm |
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RyanL wrote: | An option to think about that may sound a little extreme would be to completely change your medium again to a better quality free draining mix. (don't use garden soil) You can then apply the correct ratio of nutrients + the additional iron needed. Something like ironite plus has worked for me in the past to resolve stubborn iron deficiency's - its not perfect, but it works. 10% iron at 6 tablespoons per gallon seems tremendously high, even if that's the labels recommendations - the lable is probably referencing large in ground trees at that application rate.
There is only so much flushing the medium will do and if you don't act quickly the trees could die or become severely stunted. Monitor the trees closely, if they don't improve or decline I would replant in fresh medium as soon as possible. |
Thank you for your advice. I appreciate it! _________________ --Robert |
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Tepary
Joined: 01 Oct 2010 Posts: 8 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Mon 04 Oct, 2010 3:00 pm |
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fred wrote: | I think your potting mix might have something to do with it.
The repotting / potting up process is important- that needs to be done correctly
The brown spot i think is a "burn" weather from chemicals or the sun i am not sure- I suspect chemicals.
Hopefully some of the forum experts will chime in and help you out.
fred |
Thanks, Fred! I think the burned leaves are from the sun as we just had record high temperatures of around 105F.
I've heard that the best citrus mix partially consists of coconut hulls. _________________ --Robert |
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fred Citruholic
Joined: 16 Oct 2009 Posts: 134
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Posted: Mon 04 Oct, 2010 3:16 pm |
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Robert
This forum contains a lot of stored information that can be accessed by using the search function @ the top , that way you can avoid upsetting some folks(not me) as they get annoyed @ some folks who may not know as much as others .
Different folks have differing opinions on potting / soil less mixes etc. My opinions differ on most things from a lot of folks here on this forum. I have found for me using containers a bark mix does well here in the 3 southeastern states that I currently have citrus growing in, although most of mine are in the ground. Lots of folks here use coconut huhusk/hull chips instead of bark. I suspect where you live fir bark might be O.K. for you.Use the search and see what the other folks in your area are using. That is a good place to start.
Good Luck.
fred |
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Tepary
Joined: 01 Oct 2010 Posts: 8 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Mon 04 Oct, 2010 3:26 pm |
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fred wrote: | Robert
This forum contains a lot of stored information that can be accessed by using the search function @ the top , that way you can avoid upsetting some folks(not me) as the get annoyed @ some folks who may not know as much as others .
Different folks have differing opinions on potting / soil less mixes etc. My opinions differ on most things from a lot of folks here on this forum. I have found for me using containers a bark mix does well here in the 3 southeastern states that I currently have citrus growing in, although most of mine are in the ground. Lots of folks here use coconut huhusk/hull chips instead of bark. I suspect where you live fir bark might be O.K. for you.Use the search and see what the other folks in your area are using. That is a good place to start.
Good Luck.
fred |
Thanks Fred. I did a search and got 181 hits for "potting mix". Is there an archive where a few "correct" potting mixes are discussed? Or am I going to have to wade through 181 messages?
Thanks again. _________________ --Robert |
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RyanL Citruholic
Joined: 07 Jan 2010 Posts: 410 Location: Orange County, North Carolina. 7B
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Posted: Mon 04 Oct, 2010 5:36 pm |
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Tepary, There is no perfect medium. You must compromise in one area or another, a lot of people on this forum swear by a mix called CHC (called a mix because peat is added). Generally, the advantages are PH can hold near ideal range and its ability to prevent over watering. It can be a good choice for newer citrus enthusiasts and controlled environments (greenhouses) for these reasons. Disadvantages are dries out too quickly, hard to wet,offers minimal support for roots, much fertilizer runoff, long term stable PH is questionable. I have used this mix and will not recommend it for most outdoor or otherwise natural environment citrus.
My recommendation is visit a local citrus nursery and ask for the best medium for your specific area(most people do not have this resource). Only water the trees when the top 2 or so inches of mix are dry. Good Luck! |
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fred Citruholic
Joined: 16 Oct 2009 Posts: 134
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Posted: Mon 04 Oct, 2010 6:33 pm |
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RyanL wrote: | Tepary, There is no perfect medium. You must compromise in one area or another, a lot of people on this forum swear by a mix called CHC (called a mix because peat is added). Generally, the advantages are PH can hold near ideal range and its ability to prevent over watering. It can be a good choice for newer citrus enthusiasts and controlled environments (greenhouses) for these reasons. Disadvantages are dries out too quickly, hard to wet,offers minimal support for roots, much fertilizer runoff, long term stable PH is questionable. I have used this mix and will not recommend it for most outdoor or otherwise natural environment citrus.
My recommendation is visit a local citrus nursery and ask for the best medium for your specific area(most people do not have this resource). Only water the trees when the top 2 or so inches of mix are dry. Good Luck! |
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Tepary
Joined: 01 Oct 2010 Posts: 8 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Mon 04 Oct, 2010 6:42 pm |
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RyanL wrote: | Tepary, There is no perfect medium. You must compromise in one area or another, a lot of people on this forum swear by a mix called CHC (called a mix because peat is added). Generally, the advantages are PH can hold near ideal range and its ability to prevent over watering. It can be a good choice for newer citrus enthusiasts and controlled environments (greenhouses) for these reasons. Disadvantages are dries out too quickly, hard to wet,offers minimal support for roots, much fertilizer runoff, long term stable PH is questionable. I have used this mix and will not recommend it for most outdoor or otherwise natural environment citrus.
My recommendation is visit a local citrus nursery and ask for the best medium for your specific area(most people do not have this resource). Only water the trees when the top 2 or so inches of mix are dry. Good Luck! |
Thank you again. The nurseries around here seem to just sell what comes in. I don't think they do much potting. But I will call and see what they recommend. I will post it here to see if you think it sounds reasonable.
Best wishes,
Robert _________________ --Robert |
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fred Citruholic
Joined: 16 Oct 2009 Posts: 134
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Posted: Mon 04 Oct, 2010 6:48 pm |
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I know there are some Southern Cal guys here on this forum-- lets see if they will offer any advice |
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Tepary
Joined: 01 Oct 2010 Posts: 8 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Mon 04 Oct, 2010 6:57 pm |
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RyanL wrote: | Tepary, There is no perfect medium. You must compromise in one area or another, a lot of people on this forum swear by a mix called CHC (called a mix because peat is added). Generally, the advantages are PH can hold near ideal range and its ability to prevent over watering. It can be a good choice for newer citrus enthusiasts and controlled environments (greenhouses) for these reasons. Disadvantages are dries out too quickly, hard to wet,offers minimal support for roots, much fertilizer runoff, long term stable PH is questionable. I have used this mix and will not recommend it for most outdoor or otherwise natural environment citrus.
My recommendation is visit a local citrus nursery and ask for the best medium for your specific area(most people do not have this resource). Only water the trees when the top 2 or so inches of mix are dry. Good Luck! |
Hello,
My two local nurseries recommended the same thing:
50% Unigro Potting Mix
50% Cactus Mix.
Does this sound like a good recommendation?
Thank you! _________________ --Robert |
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Millet Citruholic
Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 6656 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Mon 04 Oct, 2010 7:42 pm |
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Tepary, welcome to The Citrus Growers Forum, we are very pleased to have you as a member..
The #1 potting mix used by commercial nurseries world wide, for container grown trees is as follows:
3 parts pine bark chips
1 part coarse sand
1 part peat moss
The reason this mix is so widely accepted by commercial tree nurseries, is because the ingredients are inexpensive, easily available any where in the country, and provides excellent drainage. If there is a problem with this mix it is that it begins to degrade (as all mixes eventually do) in 1 to 2 years. Therefore, there is a generally accepted "law" in the commercial nursery business and it is: "Sell the tree by the end of the first year, or transplant the tree into a larger container, or throw the tree away."
What you need to achieve is a potting mixture that provides the tree with GOOD DRAINAGE, and one that has as long a usable life as possible. Meaning that the mix begins to degrade and compact as slowly as possible.
The above formula is an excellent base to begin with. You can adapt it with various ingredients, AS LONG AS THE MIX PROVIDES EXCELLENT DRAINAGE, and adequate root zone aeration. One caution on the type of wood chips you use. Do not use chips that are made from hard woods, as many of them contain too much manganese, and will cause your tree a problem. Woods such as pine bark chips, cedar chips, cedar shavings, CHC, or chips from most soft woods are good types to use.
Some people use turface in place of coarse sand. Other people add perlite (personally I do not like using perlite for any thing but the very smallest trees). Use what ever you wish as long as the mix is stable, free draining, and provides AT LEAST 25 to 35 percent air porosity.
Personally, I am using a CHC/Peat growing mix in containers that range in size from 1 gallon all the way up to 55-gallons for large trees. Small size chips for the smaller containers (1/4 to 1/2-inch) , to chips as large as 2-inch pieces for the larger trees.
Like Ryan said, there is no absolutely perfect medium, all have benefits and drawbacks. Lastly, the use of garden soil is never recommended in a container. If they were my trees, I would leach, leach, leach with either distilled water or rain water. The best to you and these trees. Good luck. - Millet (832-) |
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Tepary
Joined: 01 Oct 2010 Posts: 8 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Mon 04 Oct, 2010 9:02 pm |
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Millet wrote: | Tepary, welcome to The Citrus Growers Forum, we are very pleased to have you as a member..
The #1 potting mix used by commercial nurseries world wide, for container grown trees is as follows:
3 parts pine bark chips
1 part coarse sand
1 part peat moss
The reason this mix is so widely accepted by commercial tree nurseries, is because the ingredients are inexpensive, easily available any where in the country, and provides excellent drainage. If there is a problem with this mix it is that it begins to degrade (as all mixes eventually do) in 1 to 2 years. Therefore, there is a generally accepted "law" in the commercial nursery business and it is: "Sell the tree by the end of the first year, or transplant the tree into a larger container, or throw the tree away."
What you need to achieve is a potting mixture that provides the tree with GOOD DRAINAGE, and one that has as long a usable life as possible. Meaning that the mix begins to degrade and compact as slowly as possible.
The above formula is an excellent base to begin with. You can adapt it with various ingredients, AS LONG AS THE MIX PROVIDES EXCELLENT DRAINAGE, and adequate root zone aeration. One caution on the type of wood chips you use. Do not use chips that are made from hard woods, as many of them contain too much manganese, and will cause your tree a problem. Woods such as pine bark chips, cedar chips, cedar shavings, CHC, or chips from most soft woods are good types to use.
Some people use turface in place of coarse sand. Other people add perlite (personally I do not like using perlite for any thing but the very smallest trees). Use what ever you wish as long as the mix is stable, free draining, and provides AT LEAST 25 to 35 percent air porosity.
Personally, I am using a CHC/Peat growing mix in containers that range in size from 1 gallon all the way up to 155-gallons for large trees. Small size chips for the smaller containers (1/4 to 1/2-inch) , to chips as large as 2-inch pieces for the larger trees.
Like Ryan said, there is no absolutely perfect medium, all have benefits and drawbacks. Lastly, the use of garden soil is never recommended in a container. If they were my trees, I would leach, leach, leach with either distilled water or rain water. The best to you and these trees. Good luck. - Millet (832-) |
Thank you very much, Millet! I have decided to re-pot the trees and get rid of the soil that was used. The glazed ceramic pots are 24" in diameter and 22" tall.
Does it make much difference what potting soil you mix and what climate you have in your area? Los Angeles is fairly hot and dry where we live...well not too hot. How does a mix of 1 part Unigro Potting soil, 1 part cactus mix, and 1 part CHC? Would that make a good mix that would last a fairly long time?
Thanks again for your help!
-Robert _________________ --Robert |
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Millet Citruholic
Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 6656 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Tue 05 Oct, 2010 12:20 am |
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Actually I have never heard of Unigro potting soil. They must not sell it in Colorado. I did look up its ingredients, and besides the high level of phosphorus, it should be OK. The three way blend of cactus mix, CHC and Unigro in equal parts would equal a 2 part chips and 1part peat moss blend. Cactus mixes normally are either wood chips or CHC chips with some perlite thrown in depending on the manufacture. All in all the three way mix should work well. Depending on the length of your tree's root systems, you might add 1 part of semi-course sand to help stabilize the tree against the wind. On trees with a long well developed root systems that reach down into the growth medium, I omit the sand and just use chips and peat. - The best. - Millet (832-) |
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