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Mandarin from a seed
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GynZi



Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Finland

Posted: Sun 13 Apr, 2008 5:18 am

Hello,
A month ago i put some mandarin sees into soil, and now i have 6 seedlings. I researched growing mandarins in pots with google, and from somewhere i found out that mandarin seedlings die very often. Is this true? What causes it?

I would've loved to buy a citrus, but it isn't too commonly sold here in finland, so i couldn't find one. Sad

A few days ago i was cleaning out my germinating desk, and almost threw away two germinating cups with mandarin seeds in, i searched through the soil and found two seeds that were growing roots. So i washed one of them and planted it in my ebb&flood hydroponic system along with my chilis, and it started growing fast.

Does anyone have any experience with citrus in a hydro? Once again, google gives no results.
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GynZi



Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Finland

Posted: Sun 13 Apr, 2008 6:29 am

Also, i noticed this funny thing with one of my mandarin seeds:


How normal is that one citrus seed grows three seedlings?
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Sylvain
Site Admin
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Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 790
Location: Bergerac, France.

Posted: Sun 13 Apr, 2008 7:15 am

- Citrus are very easy to grow from seeds but it is long to germinate.
- You will often hear the citrus don't like to have roots in water. It is not true, they love it but they cannot stand reducting (anoxyc) middle.
I grow citrus in water (glass test tubes) and it's ok. It will do fine in hydroponic I presume.
- For the second question, make google search with "citrus polyembryonie nucellar"
- If you grow those seeds just for the fun its ok, but don't hope fruits.
You would better buy citrus from European nurseries they send plants in all Europe and you will have no issue with sanitary controls.
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GynZi



Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Finland

Posted: Sun 13 Apr, 2008 7:33 am

Sylvain wrote:
- Citrus are very easy to grow from seeds but it is long to germinate.
- You will often hear the citrus don't like to have roots in water. It is not true, they love it but they cannot stand reducting (anoxyc) middle.
I grow citrus in water (glass test tubes) and it's ok. It will do fine in hydroponic I presume.
- For the second question, make google search with "citrus polyembryonie nucellar"
- If you grow those seeds just for the fun its ok, but don't hope fruits.
You would better buy citrus from European nurseries they send plants in all Europe and you will have no issue with sanitary controls.


Thanks for the answers!
The mandarin i moved to the ebb&flood seems to be growing very rapdily, so i guess it does love water.

Yes, i'm growing just for the fun, since the season here in finland is a way too short for fruits. I have a 20 years old grape that has made some flowers, but never fruits. Doesn't bother me though, citrus are very pretty plants, and they freshen the air with their aroma.

I'll have to check if i could find some nurseries that sell citrus, though one that you've grown from a seed is always one that you're grown from a seed. For some reason, those are much more valuable to me than bought plants. I guess it's the effort to get it from a seed to a plant.
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Sylvain
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 790
Location: Bergerac, France.

Posted: Sun 13 Apr, 2008 8:32 am

GynZi wrote:
Yes, i'm growing just for the fun, since the season here in finland is a way too short for fruits.
If you change your mind and grow citrus for fruits. They are Canadians on this forum who could help you. Their climate is very similar to yours. but it gets very "heavy", special room, light, heat etc...
Be care full, when you get the citrus virus you don't count any more your time and your money... Wink
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GynZi



Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Finland

Posted: Sun 13 Apr, 2008 8:42 am

Sylvain wrote:

Be care full, when you get the citrus virus you don't count any more your time and your money... Wink


Hehe, thanks for the warning, i got already bitten by the chili bug this spring Laughing had to grow a few plants from seeds that i got from chilis when cooking.. now i have 16 different species growing, and searching for more.. Now if i got the citrus virus.. now that would mean a way too many plants in my small house Razz
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Millet
Citruholic
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6656
Location: Colorado

Posted: Sun 13 Apr, 2008 12:16 pm

I do not know much about hydroponics, however, if you wish to grow a citrus variety as a containerized tree from seed with the intention of obtaining fruit, then mandarins are a very good choice. Normally as a container grown tree started from seed a mandarin will begin to flower and fruit in 5 years. I have grown many seedling mandarins in containers in a year around warm greenhouse, which have bloomed and fruited in 2-1/2 years. For the fastest growth a mandarin should always be kept between 25C - 30C. Temperatures at or below 13C the tree will stop all growth. If your mandarin is setting in direct sunlight always keep the root zone (soil) at least 18C, or your tree could very easily drop all of it leaves. Good luck to your tree. Let us know from time to time how your mandarin is doing. Welcome to the citrus forum, we are very happy that you have become a member. - Millet (Drill ANWR)
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GynZi



Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Finland

Posted: Sun 13 Apr, 2008 5:03 pm

Millet wrote:
I do not know much about hydroponics, however, if you wish to grow a citrus variety as a containerized tree from seed with the intention of obtaining fruit, then mandarins are a very good choice. Normally as a container grown tree started from seed a mandarin will begin to flower and fruit in 5 years. I have grown many seedling mandarins in containers in a year around warm greenhouse, which have bloomed and fruited in 2-1/2 years. For the fastest growth a mandarin should always be kept between 25C - 30C. Tempers at or below 13C the tree will stop all growth. If your mandarin is setting in direct sunlight always keep the root zone (soil) at least 18C, or your tree could very easily drop all of it leaves. Good luck to your tree. Let us know from time to time how your mandarin is doing. Welcome to the citrus forum, we are very happy that you have become a member. - Millet (Drill ANWR)


Thanks, i've been reading the forums for a while now, but decided to register today so i could start posting.
I don't really have wishes for getting fruits, but it would be nice. The temperature indoors is usually around 22C during the winter time, and in the summer it can go a little above 30C easily, so i believe that it won't be a problem. Also, as i'm planning to keep the mandarins inside during the winter, the root temperature isn't going to be a problem either.
I really hope that they're going to grow as long as the grape has. 20 years is a long time Smile

I might acutally use this thread as a 'diary' for mandarin in an ebb&flood hydroponic system, if you don't mind?

This is the mandarin in hydro at the moment. I placed it there two days ago, and there was no seedling back then. It seems to like it in there.


A few photos of building the hydroponic can be found from My growing diary. The site is finnish, but pictures are pretty self explanatory.
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Millet
Citruholic
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6656
Location: Colorado

Posted: Sun 13 Apr, 2008 7:34 pm

Citrus roots require (1) warmth (2) moisture (3) oxygen (4) nutrition. A tree could be grown under many types of systems, that provides all four requirements. It will be interesting to follow the progress of your mandarin using your system. - Millet
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KW4
Citruholic
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 68
Location: Colorado

Posted: Sun 13 Apr, 2008 11:59 pm

I am very interested in your progress with hydroponics.
Please keep us posted.
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Steve
Citruholic
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Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 253
Location: Southern Germany

Posted: Mon 14 Apr, 2008 6:19 pm

Well,
in hydroponics I did a test of four well know rootstocks in their performance and usage of this system!
I used:

  • Citrus volkameriana - Volkamer Lemon
  • Citrus aurantium - Sour Orange
  • Citrus macrophylla - the Alemow
  • Poncirus trifoliata - trifoliate Orange


The seedlings were grown in typical hydroponic pots and got regular treatment with a nutrition solution.
The oberservation was done on about 1 year. Starting in Spring and ending in Spring of the following year.

Usually most seedlings of Sour Orange suffered from a very hard root decay, due direct contact with the nutrition solution. So here, this rootstock endet up in reaching only 20 cm height....
The Alemow, know as very tolerant for flooding conditions and root rot as the trifoliate orange was promising, because growing good, and exhibit the a dense rootstock, but suffering often from rotten rot tips.... So the plant reached only 30 cm, but was still alive and growing.
The Volkamer Lemon was a surprise. I tought, that those rootstocks, very susceptible to root rot and intolerant to flooding coditions would quickly die, but this was not what happened. The Volkamer Lemon was only 20 cm behind the 40 cm high grown trifoliate stocks, still growing and most roots, which died due contact with the nutrition soluten were quickly replaced by new roots. So as the trifoliate stock in winter lost it's leaves and get into dormancy, the Volkamer Lemon still growing was ending up 10 cm ahead of the trifoliate stock in next spring... the rootstock I considered dying frist survived and showed largest growth...
Pocirus trifolata was growng well, showed the less damaged roots of all compared rootstocks and was very vigorously growing, faster than all other stocks. So it was in fall 40 cm high, reaching up more double of all other rootstocks, before getting into a dormancy....

So these are my experiences, before I abandoned this trial....

_________________
Eerh, hmm, uuuh, oooh, just guessing Wink
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GynZi



Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Finland

Posted: Wed 16 Apr, 2008 8:32 am

Steve wrote:
Well,
in hydroponics I did a test of four well know rootstocks in their performance and usage of this system!


Interesting. What kind of a system did you have? With an ebb&flood system, the possibilities for root rot should be very minimal, at least that's the way with most plants. I'm growing chili and ground cherry successfully in this system, with the mandarin.

Then updates on the mandarin, the little seedling there has already grown past the other seedling in soil, that germinated a week earlier. Will be interesting to see how fast it will grow.

I'm thinking of potting this plant later, when it's grown larger, though.
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GynZi



Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Finland

Posted: Sun 27 Apr, 2008 4:27 pm

Hello,
My mandarin triples that grew from the same seed have only grown the first leaves, and seem to have stuck in this stage, when five other plants are already growing their third or fourth pairs of leaves. What could cause this? The conditions for all seedlings are the same..
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Skeeter
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 2218
Location: Pensacola, FL zone 9

Posted: Sun 27 Apr, 2008 9:35 pm

Citrus go thru growth spurts--the leaves grow for a while, then the roots, then the leaves again. The three together may be competing for nutrients, you can divide then carefully.

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Skeet
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Millet
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6656
Location: Colorado

Posted: Sun 27 Apr, 2008 10:53 pm

Once you put your mandarin seedling into a container, be sure to only water the trees in the morning. Then place the trees in the sun so the surface layer of the soil quickly dries. This will greatly help to keep your seedling from being killed due to the fungus rhizoctonia. (stem rot). Rhizoctonia, is a very common killer of small mandarin seedlings, if the surface of the soil stays moist. The fungus does not live on dry soil. - Millet
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