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dauben
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 963
Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A

Posted: Sun 15 Mar, 2009 12:57 pm

Hello all,
I started looking into how to irrigate a citrus orchard. It looks like there are several ways, but I'm leaning towards low pressure micro sprayers on black poly tubing. Flood irrigation is out of the question, but my thought is to put a pump on my fire tank to boost the pressure to the 20 psi required and then run irrigation pipe down the slope of my orchard. I need to do the calcs still to deterimine the number of zones needed, but I thought I'd check here first to see if anyone has any experience/methods for irrigating that worked well. My main goals are low cost, reliability, and uniform coverage.

Thanks,
Phillip
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Scott K.
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 82
Location: Columbia, S.C.

Posted: Sun 15 Mar, 2009 11:38 pm

Just a friendly poke in the ribs Phil, Apples grow in orchards. Citrus grow in groves. Maybe things are different in Cali.? Congrats on the new baby and place. Have a great week! Scott

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Peace, Love, and Citrus
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Millet
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6656
Location: Colorado

Posted: Mon 16 Mar, 2009 12:39 am

We have three acres of trees (Aspen & Oak), that we harvest the young branches every July, then dye and preserve them. The stems are then wholesaled to both the Wholesale Florist trade, and the Potpourri industry. I irrigate the trees with an underground drip irrigation system. We use 20-mil T-tape that is placed 8 inches below the surface of the ground. The drip system is hooked up to both our irrigation well and also to a 10 horse power paddle driven air compressor. This enables up to both water and then aerate the tree's root system. Fertilizer can also be added directly through the drip system. In this manner we obtain a much greater amount of growth per tree per season. - Millet (1,405-)
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lites4joy



Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 7
Location: Menifee, CA

Posted: Mon 16 Mar, 2009 1:35 am

Hi,
I just attended UCR's Citrus in the Garden class. The university's groves (trees over 5 years old) are irrigated using two micro sprayers per tree supplied by 1/4" tubing from 1/2" feedeer lines. They are 270 degree sprayers placed 3' away from the truck pointed away from the truck with a spray pattern that extends about 3 foot out. Each micro sprayer emitts 6 gallons per hour. They are specifically placed to make sure the trunk does not get wet.
How often and how long will depend on your soil type and weather conditions in your specific location.

~Pat

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Moro Blood Orange on Unknownstock
Newhall Navel Orange on FDstock
Meyers Lemon on FDstock
All potted, living outside all year in Zone 9.
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dauben
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 963
Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A

Posted: Mon 16 Mar, 2009 2:09 am

Scott K. wrote:
Just a friendly poke in the ribs Phil, Apples grow in orchards. Citrus grow in groves. Maybe things are different in Cali.? Congrats on the new baby and place. Have a great week! Scott


And to think that I have been using the term "orchard" throughout the forum. The shame . . . the embarassment . . . the agony. . . Smile

Anyway, no problem poking me in the ribs. It's kind of like walking around with your zipper down. There's those who don't want to embarrass you by letting you know (but are okay with you going along letting you making a fool of yourself). Then there's those who let you know the cold hard fact that there's a reason you feel a breeze when you walk.

Thanks for the correction!! Smile On a side note though, I do have one apple tree and one peach tree planted in my grove. Does that make it an orchard? Grochard? Smile

Phillip
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dauben
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 963
Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A

Posted: Mon 16 Mar, 2009 2:19 am

Millet wrote:
We have three acres of trees (Aspen & Oak), that we harvest the young branches every July, then dye and preserve them. The stems are then wholesaled to both the Wholesale Florist trade, and the Potpourri industry. I irrigate the trees with an underground drip irrigation system. We use 20-mil T-tape that is placed 8 inches below the surface of the ground. The drip system is hooked up to both our irrigation well and also to a 10 horse power paddle driven air compressor. This enables up to both water and then aerate the tree's root system. Fertilizer can also be added directly through the drip system. In this manner we obtain a much greater amount of growth per tree per season. - Millet (1,405-)


I like the idea of drip irrigation, but will the drip emitters provide enough of a distribution around the root zone of the tree? I'm guessing I have a 10' diameter canopy on some trees. Also, my fire tank is situated at the top of my grove with the first trees maybe 10 feet below the top of the tank. I'm wondering how much water pressure I might need to run the drip tubing. I prefer not having to pump if possible, but with the microsprayers I would need a pump to get the 20 psi needed. With the drip tubing I like the idea of maybe not pumping, but I also want to get a decent distribution along the root zone without having to flood irrigate. I'm not familiar with T-Tape. Does that help distribute the water?

Phillip
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dauben
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 963
Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A

Posted: Mon 16 Mar, 2009 2:31 am

lites4joy wrote:
Hi,
I just attended UCR's Citrus in the Garden class. The university's groves (trees over 5 years old) are irrigated using two micro sprayers per tree supplied by 1/4" tubing from 1/2" feedeer lines. They are 270 degree sprayers placed 3' away from the truck pointed away from the truck with a spray pattern that extends about 3 foot out. Each micro sprayer emitts 6 gallons per hour. They are specifically placed to make sure the trunk does not get wet.
How often and how long will depend on your soil type and weather conditions in your specific location.

~Pat


Thanks Pat. That sounds promising also. I could run the feeder lines along the rows of the trees (since I've recently killed off the weeds with Roundup). My neighbors have the black poly piping on theirs, but I don't think they have any sprayers. All of my neighbors have the same grapefruit as I do, but no one does anything with them. They can't bring themselves to cut the trees down either though. I'm hoping to convert mine to some other cultivars that have a better market. My neighbors have expressed an intrest in doing the same. Maybe we'll all need to pitch in and fly Joe out to tutor us. Smile

Phillip
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Steve
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 253
Location: Southern Germany

Posted: Wed 18 Mar, 2009 7:03 pm

Well,
that's funny... we in Germany call any fruit plantange which is in rows and so having an ordered layout ochard.
So citrus, for a german, grows in ochards.
A grove is more a random pattern of trees. So usually walnuts, wich were not planted in rows, more in spots set out in the given area of land.. that's what we call a grove....

So at home, were I have to place the trees in backyard more randomly, because need to use the space and best fit... well, my citrus grove... but in Florida, I only found citrus ochards...

Funny, if you see through my eyes...

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dauben
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 963
Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A

Posted: Sun 03 May, 2009 1:53 pm

Once I get the irrigation in place, how do you know how much you need to water? I imagine that people who grow citrus have a the quantity of water zeroed in pretty well so that they aren't paying for more water than they need, but applying enough water to get the best yield. I'm sure temperature/humidity play a part, but it would be nice to know so that my well pump isn't getting killed prematurely.

Thanks,
Phillip
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Millet
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6656
Location: Colorado

Posted: Sun 03 May, 2009 5:26 pm

Citrus are evergreen and therefore require water for transpiration throughout the year. In Mediterranean climates, rainfall is concentrated in the winter months, with little or none in summer. During winter in Mediterranean climates, there is normally little need for irrigation except under extreme drought conditions. Water requirements vary with climate, ground cover, cultivation between rows, amount of weeds, and the size and age of trees. Grapefruit has higher water requirements per tree than orange or mandarin varieties, because grapefruit trees are larger. The water requirements of mature grapefruit trees generally range from 35 to 50 inches per year. In most Mediterranean climates, the daily water consumption of grapefruit ranges from 0.06 inch in January to 0.22 inch in July. Millet (1,357-)
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JoeReal
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 4726
Location: Davis, California

Posted: Sun 03 May, 2009 6:17 pm

dauben wrote:
Once I get the irrigation in place, how do you know how much you need to water? I imagine that people who grow citrus have a the quantity of water zeroed in pretty well so that they aren't paying for more water than they need, but applying enough water to get the best yield. I'm sure temperature/humidity play a part, but it would be nice to know so that my well pump isn't getting killed prematurely.

Thanks,
Phillip


I Phillip,

I can map out an irrigation pattern relative to the highest amount in the summer for your place. You can set your irrigation controller to the maximum Evapotranspiration demand rate of the summer, then simply adjust it twice a month by pressing a button or two to adjust the %.

It's very nifty feature of most irrigation timers. The trick is to know your maximum demand rate and then calculate your % adjustment for each month and I can calculate it for your place as soon as I can find the long term data.

Regards,

Joe
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dauben
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 963
Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A

Posted: Mon 04 May, 2009 3:05 am

Thanks Millet & Joe,
I actually think both of you made me think of something that I should have thought of before. Part of my job on the water side is to review irrigation demands for new projects. While I typically don't do the calc for them, I'm aware of the local data for evapotranspiration. Since it varies from species to species, what I wasn't familiar with is what citrus need. Back at the old place I didn't worry since I didn't have too many trees to worry about.

Joe, maybe I'll take you up on your offer, but I know you're busy so there's no hurry.

Thanks,
Phillip
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pagnr
Citrus Guru
Citrus Guru


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 407
Location: Australia

Posted: Wed 06 May, 2009 12:43 pm

from Morohett and Tolley "CITRUS FOR EVERYONE"

Minimum weekly water requirements (litres), for well mulched trees, watered at night through trickle irrigation, given annual rainfall of 500-600 mm and a dry summer. Conditions common in southern Australia.
tree size is average of height and width in metres

TREE........Oct........Nov........Dec.......Jan.......Feb....... Mar........Apr
(metres)
1..............17........22...........25..........30........26.........20.........12

1.5...........40........50...........60..........65........60.........45.........30

2.............70.........90..........100.........110......105........80.........50

2.5..........110.......140.........160.........175......160........120.......75

3.............155.......200.........230.........250.......235.......175......110

3.5..........210.......270.........310.........340.......320........240.....150

4.............275......355..........405.........440.......415........310.....195

* pagnr notes;the data is for southern hemisphere, where summer is dec-feb. Those in the northern hemisphere will need reverse the months.
approx daytime temp range over the year probably October +/- 20'c to Febuary +/- 40'c
irrigation requirement less from may to august , as rainfall mainly occurs in winter.
This would have to be taken as rough guidelines, and be adjusted to local conditions, such as explained by Millet's above post.
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dauben
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 963
Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A

Posted: Wed 06 May, 2009 5:26 pm

pagnr wrote:
from Morohett and Tolley "CITRUS FOR EVERYONE"


Thanks pagnr,
Here in Ramona we get an average 16.43 Inches per year (417 mm). That's slightly below the 500 mm, but it gives me a good baseline and I can proportion the values accordingly. I bet we have similar weather patterns also (but with months reversed for northern/southern hemisphere).

Thanks again,
Phillip
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JoeReal
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 4726
Location: Davis, California

Posted: Wed 06 May, 2009 7:24 pm

dauben wrote:
Thanks Millet & Joe,
I actually think both of you made me think of something that I should have thought of before. Part of my job on the water side is to review irrigation demands for new projects. While I typically don't do the calc for them, I'm aware of the local data for evapotranspiration. Since it varies from species to species, what I wasn't familiar with is what citrus need. Back at the old place I didn't worry since I didn't have too many trees to worry about.

Joe, maybe I'll take you up on your offer, but I know you're busy so there's no hurry.

Thanks,
Phillip




Phillip,

The CIMIS agromet station in Ramona were put out of commission in 1998, so I'll have to use the nearest Agromet station which is in Escondido, California.

The Agromet stations are far more accurate than the ones taken at Airport because they take into consideration the growing crop area and not the urban island effect of the paved areas around city and airports.

The Escondido agromet station started collecting data in February 4, 1999, so you don't have the 30-year average, and have to recalc the one specially for your place based on data from Feb 4, 1999 to date.

Your highest Evapotranspiration rate occurs at June 30th, with average value of 0.252" per day. You will have to multiply this number by crop coefficient depending on your crop type and size and the effective land area that they occupy to get how many gallons per day.

Using that maximum value, you can adjust your irrigation timer % based on the maximum value when you are irrigating at the most demanding day of the year. And they are distributed as follows on twice monthly adjustment basis, and if you have time to readjust timer any day you wish, simply interpolate between two values:

Jan 1 ........ 31%
Jan 16....... 33%
Feb 1......... 37%
Feb 15....... 38%
Mar 1......... 41%
Mar 16....... 53%
Apr 1......... 59%
Apr 16....... 67%
May 1........ 75%
May 16....... 81%
Jun 1.......... 81%
Jun 16........ 95%
Jul 1......... 100%
Jul 16......... 98%
Aug 1......... 92%
Aug 16....... 91%
Sep 1......... 84%
Sep 16....... 72%
Oct 1.......... 64%
Oct 16........ 53%
Nov 1......... 40%
Nov 16....... 40%
Dec 1......... 34%
Dec 16....... 30%


My timer has that feature where you simply adjust the percentage adjustment. So I just compute the time I need to run the timers to deliver the so many gallons per tree based on the maximum demand. Then every two weeks, I readjust the % setting on my timer. It is very accurate, as I used moving average calculations. The percentage adjustment can also go beyond 100% if it becomes hotter than normal.

I start irrigating on March 15 and stop during the first day of rains in October or November.

Joe
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