Citrus Growers Forum

ivica · Posted: Fri 02 Dec, 2011 3:21 pm

"Within the next decade, the Arctic could experience a complete late-season melt-out and, with that, a permanent loss of the multiyear ice.

This prospect is celebrated across Asia. The Chinese media call the Northern Sea Route the Arctic Golden Waterway. Bin Yang of Shanghai Maritime University estimates that the route along the Russian coast could save China a staggering $60-billion to $120-billion annually."
http://arctictransport.wordpress.com/2011/09/14/asian-juggernaut-eyes-our-%E2%80%98golden%E2%80%99-waterways/

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Laaz · Posted: Fri 02 Dec, 2011 3:54 pm

It is not a good thing. Many species of animals depend on the ice for survival.

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j3u5a8n · Posted: Fri 02 Dec, 2011 3:59 pm

There are always people who see something advantageous out of any situation.

Millet · Posted: Fri 02 Dec, 2011 4:40 pm

..............."Within the next decade, the Arctic could experience a complete late-season melt-out and, with that, a permanent loss of the multiyear ice..........

The weather forecasters have a poor record predicting next weeks weather. Predicting the weather 10 years from now is nothing less than worthless. -Millet (409-)

ivica · Posted: Fri 02 Dec, 2011 5:14 pm

Millet wrote:

..............."Within the next decade, the Arctic could experience a complete late-season melt-out and, with that, a permanent loss of the multiyear ice..........

The weather forecasters have a poor record predicting next weeks weather. Predicting the weather 10 years from now is nothing less than worthless. -Millet (409-)

Even weather forecast for next day can be totally wrong during certain periods of year. But it's not about weather.

Seems a money game (and some policy) in action, from above article:
"To the east, the Northwest Passage offers a 7,000-kilometre shortcut between Northeast Asia and the Atlantic seaboard of the United States. To the west, the Northern Sea Route offers a 10,000-kilometre shortcut to Europe."

"Putin says Arctic trade route to rival Suez"
http://www.kyivpost.com/news/russia/detail/113372/

"Japanese Weathernews will launch a satellite in September 2012 that will provide navigational services to ships travelling along the Russian and North American coasts in the Arctic Ocean"
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Japanese_meteorological_firm_to_launch_satellite_to_track_Arctic_sea_ice_999.html

"To make it work, Russia must revamp ports, install rescue systems and build icebreakers for as much as 30 billion rubles ($1.1 billion) each to provide safe passage for tankers."
http://arctictransport.wordpress.com/2011/09/15/russian-infrastructure-investment-propelling-northeast-passage/

Some works hard to involve Canada into game:
I have the impression that Canada has given up on the competition to attract a large part of the traffic in 25 or 30 years.
http://foreignpolicyblogs.com/2011/08/19/the-northwest-passage-versus-northern-sea-route/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-northwest-passage-versus-northern-sea-route

"On August 30, the Russian Nuclear Corporation Rosatom reported that the tanker Vladimir Tikhonov - a suezmax with a deadweight of 162,000 tonnes that is owned by the Russian shipping company Sovcomflot - set a speed record completing its voyage along the passage in just under eight days.
It was escorted by two nuclear icebreakers, the Fifty Years of Victory and Yamal."
http://www.bellona.org/articles/articles_2011/Vladimir_tikhonov

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ivica · Posted: Fri 02 Dec, 2011 8:01 pm

Although it's not about climate either,
one could find strange that a good part of money above is 'oily money',
the same money which says that nothing strange is going on with climate.
But that is to be expected, money don't care.

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Millet · Posted: Fri 02 Dec, 2011 8:17 pm

Actually, I don't think anything "strange" is going on with the climate. Warm and cold periods have been going on one after the other since time immortal. - Millet (409-)

ivica · Posted: Fri 02 Dec, 2011 8:43 pm

BTW,
Just found nice photo of current 'Arctic speed record owner',
East Siberian Sea, 2011-08-26:
http://photos.marinetraffic.com/ais/showphoto.aspx?photoid=636517&size=full

Vessel's details:
http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?MMSI=636012814
Last known port: Dubai

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avinyard · Posted: Sat 03 Dec, 2011 1:10 am

Climate change is real. Whether it's caused by human activity is what is at question. It is generally accepted by the scientific community that human activity is the cause. If you choose to disagree, then let history be your judge. I would much rather we do our best as a species to live sustainably and to protect our environment rather than do nothing and find out later that climate change was our fault and we could have done something about it but we didn't.

Millet · Posted: Sat 03 Dec, 2011 1:18 am

........." It is generally accepted by the scientific community that human activity is the cause"..............

The number of scientist that have now signed the draft saying that human activity is NOT the cause of global warming is now over 35,000 names. However, everyone can believe whatever they wish, but lets not get drawn out into a long climate change discussion. This will be my last post on the subject. (Millet 409-)

Darkman · Posted: Sat 03 Dec, 2011 1:26 pm

I don't think there is a thing we can do to change or reverse this situation. IF man has caused this it has been building for decades and possibly centuries. What happens happens. Humanity needs to spend its efforts on things we can change.

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Charles in Pensacola

Life - Some assembly required, As is no warranty, Batteries not included, Instructions shipped separately and are frequently wrong!

Kentucky Bourbon - It may not solve the problem but it helps to make it tolerable!

cristofre · Posted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 4:21 pm

Whether or not humans are causing global warming, its pretty clear from evidence that it is getting warmer and that polar ice is melting.

As far as I am concerned, bring on the warmer climate, I've got citrus to grow. lol

On the other hand, I am all for reducing pollution, it certainly isn't helping anything or anyone.

Darkman · Posted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 10:37 pm

cristofre wrote:

.....As far as I am concerned, bring on the warmer climate, I've got citrus to grow.lol.....

Boy if I could not have freezes and frost here........What a place I could have.

Of course I would complain about the hummingbird size moquitos then. LOL

I'd probably complain if you hung me with a new rope!

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Charles in Pensacola

Life - Some assembly required, As is no warranty, Batteries not included, Instructions shipped separately and are frequently wrong!

Kentucky Bourbon - It may not solve the problem but it helps to make it tolerable!