Citrus Growers Forum

snu · Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 9 Location: Lahti, Finland

I live in a small apartment in Finland, so I have to have my trees inside all the time, except maybe in summertime. I'm just a newbie at this so could you tell me if I got something wrong?

To increase node count I need a lot of branches. To get the branches I should snip off the growing tip of the branch to make it grow more branches. I read somewhere cutting a branch makes it younger and thus that is not a good idea, right? So, just the tip then? How old/big should the tree be before I can take the tip off for the first time?

If I keep the tree in a quite small container, the tree will grow less between each node? Or just grow less nodes?

My windows face to west and there is a taller building in front of mine, so I will only get direct sunlight about 4 hours/day. How does that affect?

I wait till the tree is the size I want it to be (not enough nodes) and then do a bark inversion on the trunk. If successful the result should be a fruiting tree? If not successful, I try a bridge graft and possibly lose the tree. Or does a bark inversed tree still need enough nodes to flower?

I have lemon, orange, mandarin and kumquat seedlings. Which needs least nodes? If roots and half of the tree is something that needs a low node count and half something that needs a high node count, does only half of the tree flower?

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JoeReal · Posted: Fri 11 May, 2007 12:44 pm

Don't prune the tips off.

Be more adventurous and try bark inversion. Bark inversion will keep your tree small for about 4 years without pruning but could speed up time to blooming and fruiting.

Before you do it around the main trunk, make sure to spray alcohol (70%) or lysol, your equipments and the area where you want to operate on. Be sure to have parafilm tape sealant or pruning sealer to cover the cuts after you do the bark inversion.

Here's the bark inversion in drawing:

BabyBlue11371 · Posted: Sat 12 May, 2007 12:34 am

Joe,
I was just wondering if this could be done and a few branches below it left incase the graft fails and above the graft is lost??
I have been considering this for my daughters Blood orange seedling but as it is dear to her don't want to risk loosing the entire tree..
So if the graft fails I could allow one of the lower limbs to recover the tree..
Thanks for any advice..

Gina *BabyBlue*

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JoeReal · Posted: Sat 12 May, 2007 2:01 am

BabyBlue11371 wrote:

Joe,
I was just wondering if this could be done and a few branches below it left incase the graft fails and above the graft is lost??
I have been considering this for my daughters Blood orange seedling but as it is dear to her don't want to risk loosing the entire tree..
So if the graft fails I could allow one of the lower limbs to recover the tree..
Thanks for any advice..
Gina *BabyBlue*

Sure you can do that if you are not confident of your operation or can't take the risk. Most likely if you do the bark inversion above the graft line, there would be sprouts below the bark inversion area. If you observed that the tree is going to live, then rub off the sprouts below the bark inversion band. If the part above the bark inversion band is starting to die off, then allow the sprouts to grow. It would take one full season to know if the bark inversion is a success or not. Takes about one year before you know the part above the band is going to live or die.

valenciaguy · Posted: Sat 12 May, 2007 11:58 pm

Why exactly is this suposed to work and how does it work? It just seems strange to me.

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Patty_in_wisc · Posted: Sun 13 May, 2007 12:12 am

I'm with you Valencia. What is the purpose of bark inversion? I just don't get it ... sorry. Embarassed

Looks like you cut the bark strip off & then replace it upside down?

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Patty
I drink wine to make other people more interesting Wink

gborosteve · Posted: Sun 13 May, 2007 1:08 am

I think the bark inversion is definitely for the more experienced horticulturist (?), all I know is I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that to any of my trees. I just don't have the experience.
I know I pulled off little fruitlets on one of my Meyers, and there are all sorts of new blooms starting on it everywhere. It seems to be really happy in its container. I hope I can keep it that way.
The 5' Sambo has fruit ALL over it. And it's a big enough boy that I'm going to let it do its thing, just giving it the nutrition is needs along the way.
One of my Meyers has two nicely sized lemons on it. And that's all I'm letting it have. I just can't bear to tear them off...they really are a nice size. The one Eureka has two on it also, and its markedly different. It is more "knobby", like a pear-shape. Will be interesting to see how they look as they mature.

JoeReal · Posted: Sun 13 May, 2007 3:24 am

Patty_in_wisc wrote:

I'm with you Valencia. What is the purpose of bark inversion? I just don't get it ... sorry. Embarassed

Looks like you cut the bark strip off & then replace it upside down?

valenciaguy wrote:

Why exactly is this suposed to work and how does it work? It just seems strange to me.

there are scientific studies behind that technique, and there are several internationally refereed articles abouts its use on citruses, mangoes, avocadoes and even maples. In the ACTA Hort for example, there are publications about it.

In layman's terms, you basically reverse the "polarity" of the cambium vessels but not the xylem vessels. The xylem vessels supplies the water and nutrients from the roots while the cambiums supply the food to the roots. Reversing the polarity slows down the supply of food to the roots, it slows it down so that the roots won't grow bigger but not die either. In the case of girdling, food supply to the roots is cut off and the tree dies within a year because of roots dying. So with roots not growing but not dying, the plant is stunted, the extra food is kept above ground where it produces bigger fruits. The reversal in polarity tend to induce some hormones that mimic the number of nodes so that the plants will bear much fruit earlier.

Bark inversion has been done by various people maintaining the trees with overhead electrical lines. They do it only once every 4 years instead of the time consuming pruning every year.

Bark inversion is also no different than scoring the tree trunk, a practice that is being done on some fruit trees to induce them to bloom much earlier.

If I have time, I will post the links for you about this long time knowledge. I have posted those links in other forums much earlier, and will hunt them down and show it here. It requires time to do a CSI for you, or you can simply search the ACTA Hort archives if you are a paid subscriber.

Joe

JoeReal · Posted: Sun 13 May, 2007 3:29 am

gborosteve wrote:

I think the bark inversion is definitely for the more experienced horticulturist (?), all I know is I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that to any of my trees. I just don't have the experience.
I know I pulled off little fruitlets on one of my Meyers, and there are all sorts of new blooms starting on it everywhere. It seems to be really happy in its container. I hope I can keep it that way.
The 5' Sambo has fruit ALL over it. And it's a big enough boy that I'm going to let it do its thing, just giving it the nutrition is needs along the way.
One of my Meyers has two nicely sized lemons on it. And that's all I'm letting it have. I just can't bear to tear them off...they really are a nice size. The one Eureka has two on it also, and its markedly different. It is more "knobby", like a pear-shape. Will be interesting to see how they look as they mature.

i think it is easier to do than T-budding. But the perceived possibility of losing the entire tree is too overwhelming.

I have several dozen seedling rootstocks that I can graft to. For me, losing a tree is somewhat a celebration as it gives me valid reason to plant a different kind.

Like my Meyer Lemon which got knocked down by my Van. The arctic blast have weakened it, and the Van did it in. Now I am happy that I can replace it with a Pomegranate at last! BTW, I have three other lemon trees. one of them have ten kinds of lemons on it, not counting my 60-n-1 tree which also have various lemons.

Bark inversion is easy to do, but it takes an initially big courage to hurdle your fears of losing the tree.

gborosteve · Posted: Mon 14 May, 2007 4:28 pm

Well, I'll invite you over for a Meyer lemon martini and you can do the bark inversion, how's that? Smile

I do agree. You would have to overcome your fear of losing the entire tree, and I'm just not that brave.

Patty_in_wisc · Posted: Tue 15 May, 2007 2:21 am

Joe, I do remember seeing the same pic of bark inversion - prolly posted by you on that other forum. It seemed to make sense then, but for some reason, it confuses me now. Maybe old age & loss of memory? Too much vino? Laughing

I worked outside so hard today, I feel like a truck ran over me. It was in low 80's --FINALLY!

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Patty
I drink wine to make other people more interesting Wink

Whistlepig · Joined: 09 Feb 2007 Posts: 15 Location: Dayton, OH

How large does the tree have to be before attempting bark inversion?