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dauben Citruholic
Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 963 Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A
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Millet Citruholic
Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 6656 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Wed 02 Jul, 2008 5:19 pm |
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Actually ANWR is a miserable place. Dark most all of the winter, and a mosquito infested hell hole throughout the summer. - Millet |
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Sylvain Site Admin
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 Posts: 790 Location: Bergerac, France.
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Posted: Wed 02 Jul, 2008 6:21 pm |
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The problem is not the landscape and the weather in Alaska!!!
The problem is that you are going to burn all that gas! After having burnt the gas of the other countries! |
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Millet Citruholic
Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 6656 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Wed 02 Jul, 2008 7:49 pm |
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Sylvain, that's EXACTLY THE POINT for drilling...... to USE the gas. It certainly does not do us any good just to leave it stuck in the ground. ------ Drill ANWR. - Millet |
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Patty_in_wisc Citrus Angel
Joined: 15 Nov 2005 Posts: 1842 Location: zone 5 Milwaukee, Wi
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Posted: Thu 03 Jul, 2008 1:07 am |
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Thank you Phillip for that info. I think I'm going to be sick now.
There is something really wrong here. _________________ Patty
I drink wine to make other people more interesting
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dauben Citruholic
Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 963 Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A
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Posted: Thu 03 Jul, 2008 4:18 am |
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Here's some more info for those interested:
http://www.anwr.org/case.htm
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,179005,00.html
http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?t=720481
http://republicans.resourcescommittee.house.gov/PRArticle.aspx?NewsID=1632
Here's a few items I learned from the above URLs:
1) The Trans Alaska Pipeline System (TAPs) already runs just to the west of ANWR and is using less than half of it's capacity.
2) Studies of the ANWR coastal plain indicate it may contain between 6 and 16 billion barrels of recoverable oil (between 11.6 and 31.5 billion barrels in-place). With enhanced recovery technology, ANWR oil could provide an additional 30 to 50 years of reliable supply.
3) Another wildlife refuge in Alaska, the Kenai National Wildlife Refuge, has had drilling onsite for decades. The oil production there rarely makes the news because it has not caused any problems, even though Kenai has far more wildlife than ANWR.
4) The Central Arctic Caribou Herd (CACH) that migrate through the oil producing Prudhoe Bay has grown from 3000 animals to its current level of 32,000 animals. The arctic oil fields have very healthy brown bear, fox and bird populations equal to their surrounding areas.
5) There have been no new major discoveries in the 48 contiguous states in thirty years. |
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harveyc Citruholic
Joined: 10 Jan 2007 Posts: 372 Location: Sacramento Delta USDA Zone 9
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Posted: Thu 03 Jul, 2008 5:33 am |
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Thanks Philip! Seems to strong of a case to be believable! And we better get some regulations in place to put in escalators for bears that get up on the pipelines like that. _________________ Harvey |
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Millet Citruholic
Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 6656 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Thu 03 Jul, 2008 10:50 am |
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For those of us old enough to remember the environmental discussions when the Alaskan pipeline was being proposed, the environmentalist predictions were that the pipeline would cause great harm to the caribou herds, and interfere with the other Alaskan native animals. What turned out to be the truth was exactly the opposite. Caribou have a much easier time in their migration, and are actually using many of the roads build for the pipeline. Animal numbers in all categories have been maintained and in many cases increased. In the case of the caribou by many fold. - Millet |
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dauben Citruholic
Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 963 Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A
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Posted: Thu 03 Jul, 2008 12:24 pm |
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harveyc wrote: | Thanks Philip! Seems to strong of a case to be believable! And we better get some regulations in place to put in escalators for bears that get up on the pipelines like that. |
Funny you mentioned escalators. The water district I work for put in a 30-inch above grade water pipeline in 5 years ago. One of the requirements that the environmentalists wanted was a bridge crossing over the pipe for the deer. My joke was the next step is to have a big deer crossing sign so deer know that they needed to cross on that bridge. Fortunately, we were able to convince the resource agencies that we would hold them liable for any accidents from people or kids falling off the deer crossing. They dropped the requirement.
Anyway, I think there is a strong argument for drilling ANWR, but obviously as a proponent, my arguments are one sided. I've read other commentaries from the other side saying the TAPS pipeline has had "hundreds of leaks" and there are "some frogs have 3 heads" in drilling areas. Those arguments tended to leave out their sources for their claims and the magnitude of the leaks or 3 headed frogs. My interpretations was the claims were intended to stoke the emotions of environmental supporters. We report all water leaks that we respond to whether it's a drop or 1000 gallons. Statistics can always be manipulated depending on the side you're on.
Phillip |
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Millet Citruholic
Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 6656 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Thu 03 Jul, 2008 7:19 pm |
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99.5 percent of ANWR is owned by the US Government. The area that was set aside for oil drilling, and is causing all the environmentalist controversy, is called the 1002 area. Further because of directional drilling only a small part of the 1002 area would be used as the oil production area. Almost no American know much of anything about the 19.6 million acres of ANWR, let alone the 1002 area, The 1002 area is a TINY 2.000 acre sliver of ANWR, about one one-hundredth of one percent of the National Arctic Wildlife Reserve. To put the actual oil drilling area into prospective, if Alaska was a football field, ANWR would be from the goal line to the 6 yard line. The 1002 area would extend from the goal line to the 1/2 yard line, and the actual oil production drilling area would be less than the length of one link on the first down chain. OR If Alaska was the front page of the NY Times, ANWR would be 7 column inches of text, the 1002 area would be 1/2 inch of text, and the oil production drilling area would be one print letter of text. All in the treeless flat mosquito infested ANWR. I really don't see what the big deal is for the absolutest fanatic environmentalists. It is long past time to drill for the largest domestic reserve of oil in the United States. - Millet |
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harveyc Citruholic
Joined: 10 Jan 2007 Posts: 372 Location: Sacramento Delta USDA Zone 9
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Posted: Fri 04 Jul, 2008 4:56 am |
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Earlier tonight I posted a link earlier to a video which, after watching the rest of, I deleted that post. Too much of a conspiracy theory that doesn't even make sense to me.
Still, I'm wondering, how much of our oil needs might we be able to get from Alaska? Since you're so good with figures, Bob (Millet), I figure you would have that on the tip of your brain! _________________ Harvey |
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Millet Citruholic
Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 6656 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Fri 04 Jul, 2008 1:52 pm |
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Although we do not get all of our oil from the Saudi's, we do get a large part of it from them. ANWR is projected to be equal to a 30 year supply of Saudi oil. If ANWR was only a 10 year supply I would drill. If ANWR was only a 5 year supply I would still drill. The world largest supply of oil is in the Colorado/Wyoming Oil shale formations. The envyromentalists are are already lining up against shale oil. - Millet |
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