Almost everyone will tell you that Clemintines DO NOT produce true from seed, and I agree.....sort of. As many of you know I plant many seeds from Clemintines every year in search of the chance seedling, BECAUSE they do not produce true from seed......well sort of. Recently I planted a flat of twelve Clementine seeds taken from a Chilean grown fruit, and got 17 seedlings plants after germination. One seed sent up 4 tiny seedlings, which is a record for one of my Clemintine seeds since I begain planting them three years ago. That means that 5 of the seedling are from nucellar tissue, thus will be TRUE and an exact clone of the mother tree. So, yes, a true Clemintine tree can be obtained from a Clemintine seed......sort of. - Millet

Millet,
I suppose the next question, then, is -- was the fruit they called a "Clementine" really a 'Clementine'? Or is it a look-alike that happens to be nucellar? If 'Clementine' is, by definition, monoembryonic, perhaps this fruit should be called something else? Of course there are several cultivars in the group, but they're always said to be strictly monoembryonic, afaik.

Dr. Manners, you ask a good question. The "what if" questions are the difficult ones. to answer. The carton that they are sold in is marked Clemintine, and the supermarket sells them as Clemintines, and they taste and look like Clemintine, but I understand what you are saying about are they truely Clemintines. The peel seemed tighter than usual, but that might be neither here or there. Last years season I planted approximately 200 seeds, most were Pixie brand from California which are the Clemintine variety Afourer, but a few were Israeli, Chlie and South African. Out of the 200 seeds last year, 32 seeds produced at least one extra nucellar seedling (two nucellar seedling from one seed was the highest last year).I did not keep any records which seeds(Californian, Israeli, Chile, S. Africa) last year produced the 32 nucellar seedlings. Chances are Californian but who knows for sure. I know Califonria's Pixie is the variety Afourer Clemintine, so in the future I will have to verify if the nucellar seedlings come from known Clemintine seeds. I have four varieties of Clementine Trees myself which I can pollinate with other citrus pollen and get many hybrid Clemintine seeds. However, I never keep any of the nucellar seedling anyway, as I only want the zygote seedling for the chance seedling (even though the odds are 1,000,000 to 1, its fun never the less. If I get a miracle chance seedling, I should name it Malcolm. - Millet

Watering in the greenhouse today, I noticed that I was wrong about the germinated nucellar Cementine seeds coming from Chilean seeds. All the nucellar seedling are in the tray next to the Chilean seed tray. They would be California fruit, but I do not know from which shipper. I think I would be down graded for my record keeping if I was in Dr. Manners class. - Millet

How can you tell which seedling is from nucellar seed? Isn't the ability to produce nucellar seedling the characteristic of all citrus plants? Why can't Clementine produce true from seeds? I have 10 seedlings from a friend's mandarine that taste like Clementine, but wasn't sure if it is. If they don't breed true maybe I should discard them. Do you grow all hundred plants till they mature to find the chance seedling?

I learned the two Mandarins to not be quite the
same, so there is some confusion here as to which
clone or form we are talking about as it matters
which source we got our plants from. As an
example, if the Clementine came to you from
someone in South Carolina and that person got
his plant from someone in Texas and he got his
plants from a nursery in Exeter and they got their
budwood from UCR and they got their wood from
Lindcove and Lindcove got their plant from an
experimental station in Florida then we may be
looking at the real Clementine that came into the
US around 1900 I believe.

I was told the introduction from Fancher Creek
nursery in the teens was the Algerian Tangerine.
There was a second form, was not a clone was
what I was told, of Algerian Tangerine that was
named the Clementine. So, back in the 20's we
had both forms available to us if we knew where
to get them. The problem that we have is
determining if the form that came into Florida
is the same as the form that was introduced in
California around the same time as the Clementine
came into Florida. At one time the notion was
that they were the same but with different names
as they came in but years later it was our feeling
they were not the same. I have not gone that far
back yet and am not going to.

I always felt the Algerian Tangerine and the
Clementine that I've seen and grown were not
the same but we had to have been around them
both to see the subtle differences in them. We
will more likely see the differences here in the
San Joaquin Valley more so than in most areas
as the skin color as the fruit ripens will easily
tell the two forms apart. Not only that but the
shape of the fruit and the texture of the skin
are not quite the same.

You guys can deal with the nucellar stuff
but there are clones of Clementine around
so you make your own ascertains from that.

I know how to tell an Algerian Tangerine
and a Clementine apart when I see them
providing how I learned them is how they
are supposed to be. There is always that
disclaimer that needs to be put out there
for some of these Citrus as we can only
go on what we know and were taught and
not place too much emphasis on the written
script as now what separates who is more
likely to be closer to being right is the
person that has been around them and
not the person to have written about them
sight unseen.

Jim, acting on behalf of Snickles